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Date/Time: Tue, 23 Jan 2018 06:15:04 +0000



Our Experience with E-Signal

Support Request:
[2013-10-11 09:50:26]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 56390
Hello,

We first want to say, we are exceptionally disappointed with the E-Signal treatment of us.

This is going to be a brief summary of our quite negative experience with E-Signal.

Sierra Chart has been in business a very long time. Since the late 90s. E-Signal has been around since that time. We have never added support for E-Signal previously, because it is an expensive data feed and generally based upon feedback, there is minimal interest in it.

Periodically we would get requests to add support for E-Signal. We consistently rejected them. However, we began to realize that because of the broad exchange support that E-Signal has, thus parent company Interactive Data supports apparently all the exchanges in the world, it probably would be a good idea to bring support for E-Signal on. We knew that the interest in it would still be limited because it is an expensive data feed. About $100 a month.

This decision-making was made near the end of 2012. We try to obtain a technical specifications for their API from them back then. They were very slow to provide them.

The main sales contact we were working with at E-Signal, was terminated by the company just before Christmas. This was a surprise to him. We have been told the company was in disarray. So we decided it probably was not a good idea to get involved with E-Signal. We still had contact with this person and they thought because of the broad exchange support that E-Signal has, that it was best we follow through because we could not get access to all those exchanges with other providers.


We integrated to E-Signal earlier in the year using the JSON protocol. They had to provide an order form for the JSON service and make the service available to our customers. They never did.

There were all kinds of excuses given for the delay, and most recently, they started asking us lots of questions about our software and business.

They then have made a recent claim that they have to lodge clients, such as us, with all the exchanges they work with order to provide the data feed. This may be a recent development with the NASDAQ, but certainly it could not be the case with all the other exchanges in the world. As a solution to this, we told them we only are interested in the Asian exchanges. No other exchanges. We have alternative data feeds we support for all of the other major exchanges.

They then also told us, that in order to provide the data feed they want a minimum of 3000 a month business from our customers. Otherwise, we have to make up the shortfall. It is unlikely, anytime soon we could ever meet that if at all. This was an item of nondisclosure. In relationship such as these, minimums are never necessary.

We asked them if we had used their standard API, would there still be a 3000 a month minimum? They said yes.

So basically they go from $0 to $36,000 a year. This is clearly breaching the covenant of good faith and fair dealing. We would never have added support for E-Signal if we knew about this minimum. Otherwise, the whole thing would not be economical for us. Certainly there will be some customers, but we do not know how many and it would take time to build up to the minimum.

They cannot arbitrarily impose this kind of minimum. We incurred a significant detriment adding support for E-Signal. This was a cost to us that has yet to be recovered. So they have to perform, in order to provide the customers data feed, and allow us to recover our investment.

They are not imposing this minimum on any other third-party software provider that we know of.


Furthermore, we are marketing and supporting the E-Signal data feed and to impose a minimum, is simply just completely unfair and turns this into nothing more than a slave relationship. We will certainly be referring business, but we cannot guarantee a certain minimum amount. We have no control over that.


At this point, we are still waiting for E-Signal to begin to offer the data feed providing access to Asian exchanges. As of yet it still has not happened. When it does, we will make it available. But we are not going to agree to a minimum.

The final comment here is that one thing that you customers are not aware of is all of the problems we deal with with Data and Trading service providers. This is what makes our business exceptionally difficult and challenging. The problems range from business issues to technical problems. This is not the first time something like this has happened.

So whenever people ask can you add support for this data feed or can you add support for this trading service, you are asking for a huge amount from us and exposing us to all kinds of problems. Integration to Data and Trading services is a substantial task. It is not trivial at all. This is why we are very hesitant to do anything new with Data or Trading services. As of this time, we are not going to add support for new Data or Trading services for some time now and there better be a very good reason why we should. Although we will be completing integration to Tele-trader.

For some other information as to the technical problems we face with services, refer to this help topic:
http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=doc/helpdetails76.html

One good thing we have to look forward to, is that we ourselves, are now beginning to become a data provider with the upcoming release of the CME data feed. This is going to mean, that there will not need to be a definite reliance on external providers of market data .
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2013-10-31 17:35:11
[2013-10-11 10:50:40]
ganz - Posts: 845
Hello SC Support.

We incurred a significant detriment adding support for E-Signal. This was a cost to us that has yet to be recovered. So they have to perform, in order to provide the customers data feed, and allow us to recover our investment.

This is why we are very hesitant to do anything new.

Also there was my voice for eSignal.
I will pay for SC Datafeed in order to support new service or I'll donate some money until the end of this year to be responsible for my vote for eSignal.

Thank you.
[2013-10-11 10:54:52]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 56390
Not to worry. The cost was not that much. We only point it because they should be aware of it and not disregard their responsibilities to perform which should be easy for them.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
[2013-10-11 11:07:40]
setapakforex - Posts: 10
Dear SC,

Why don't you subscript directly to Hong Kong exchange, Singapore exchange and Kuala Lumpur exchange?

1) Hong Kong exchange has the highest volume in Asia and market capitalization is rated top 5 in the world. It is the only gateway penetration into China and many of regional brokers are offering "MHI" mini hang seng (the most active index market in Asia).

2) Singapore exchange has diversify market including Japan derivatives.

3) Kuala Lumpur exchange has FCPO (palm oil commodity index) because Indonesia and Malaysia are the largest palm oil manufacturers in the world.
[2013-10-14 17:28:03]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 56390
Directly subscribing to the exchanges is very costly and complex. Therefore, it is not practical.

If you know a data provider in Asia we can work with, then we can work through them. This will be the most practical way. So it would be best to find a local data provider that has good connectivity to those exchanges and reasonable pricing.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2013-10-14 17:29:17
[2013-10-18 18:59:26]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 56390
For the historical record our last communication to E-Signal was 2013-10-9 and they have yet to respond to us. Probably will never hear from them ever again.

E-Signal was a waste of time and we recommend avoiding them.

Update: The date is now 2013-11-1. Still no response from E-Signal. They are not an honest trustworthy business. And they should never be relied on by anyone.

So our initial view of E-Signal that we have had over the years, turned out to be correct. It is a service we should never have supported.

It really is also quite absurd, that a company like E-Signal, which provides market data, is incapable to provide a basic data feed subscription to our customers interested in using E-Signal. They still have failed to do so for nearly a year and have given numerous sham excuses. The simple fact is they do not want to do business with us.

It took us only about two months to develop our own service to deliver real-time and historical futures data to our customers. Yet E-Signal cannot even provide a market data feed to our customers, which they do every day to their other users.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2013-11-01 16:15:39
[2013-12-30 18:24:57]
ymlee - Posts: 23
Hi SC,

Have SC try SuperFeed from NYSE Technologies?

[2013-12-31 07:48:23]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 56390
We are going to be offering our us stock data feed in about a month.

And we are going to be offering a large number of exchanges around the world. This will come in a few more months.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
[2014-01-04 11:39:19]
ymlee - Posts: 23
Hi SC,

Hope SC is able to include stock market as setapakforex mentioned.
SC is a great product, is a waste just because couldn't get a reliable data service provider.
[2014-01-05 17:34:53]
cmb999 - Posts: 160
their Asian data is not worth it, anyway. I subscribed several years ago to HKFE and Osaka futures. was using their front-end. frequent drop-outs (once a week), and subsequent gaps in data, that were never recovered. i just never had a strong feeling about their infrastructure for quote delivery. sure they have a lot of exchanges. so does CQG, which is another argument in favor of them, btw.
[2014-01-05 17:55:01]
user511 - Posts: 5
Hi , i can sympathize about eSignal. I used the platform, frankly I'm not that impressed. Sierra Charts offers - as far as I can see - everything (and even more) they do, except perhaps EW analysis. Infact, I prefer SC because the platform is more lightweight, loads quicker and is easier to use. eSignal is a very bulky platform and I found it really fiddly and complex to use. For example, it is not as easy & quick to load multiple charts into a book - like with SC.

The only draw to them is their wide range of Emerging Market feeds.

The reason why eSignal has many users is due to the quality of the data. The data is very high quality and goes back 20-30 years at least for most items. They also support (as mentioned) loads of different exchanges. This is in contract to SC, where data is not always so good quality (some datapoints are often missing) and does not go back so long. Also, the selection of products is less (less exchanges).

So, really the big advantage of eSignal is the data. The actual platform is worse than SC , IMO. eSignal probably understand this , hence the problems you guys had.

In addition , ESignal pricing is highly expensive.

I'm sure many users ESignal users would migrate if a greater selection of feeds were available at a lower cost with comparable data.

Anyway, I hope you guys achieve it one day. Honestly, the SC platform is very high quality. If you can get the data like eSignal, Im sure you can grow the company 10x.

FWIW, I would love to have an alternative to eSignal. I would definitely support any effort by Sierra Chart to incorporate more exchanges and better data.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2014-01-05 18:02:53
[2014-01-05 18:27:14]
user511 - Posts: 5
PS. I noticed Interactive Data also provide the data for Stockcharts.... which is competing service with eSignal.

http://www.interactivedata.com/

Its a real shame that this cant work with SC - once again, the data for StockCharts is very high quality.
[2014-01-08 09:52:31]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 56390
Getting back to this thread now:

1. We are offering our own market data feed with support for various exchanges around the world (North America, Europe and Asia). We currently offer 3 futures exchanges. For what else is coming refer to:

http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=doc/SierraChartRealTimeFuturesStockDataFeed.php#UpcomingFunctionality

2. We have support for Indian data:
http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=doc/GlobalDataFeeds_India.php

3.
The data is very high quality and goes back 20-30 years at least for most items. They also support (as mentioned) loads of different exchanges. This is in contract to SC, where data is not always so good quality (some datapoints are often missing) and does not go back so long. Also, the selection of products is less (less exchanges).

Most people do not need 20 to 30 years of data. What happened back that far may be interesting to look at but is of really little practical genuine value for trading and investment purposes at the present time.

We will be adding support for many exchanges. This is in progress now.

The comment about data not always being good from SC, does not seem valid. Sierra Chart supports many Data and Trading services. Some of them are our own but many of them are external. So what particular service are you referring to here?

The service named "SC Historical Data" is a good service. We are not aware of any missing data points. If you are referring to Interactive Brokers data, then that is an external service and the comment must be about them.

4. All of the exchanges that you see with Tele-trader we will be adding support for:
http://technologies.teletrader.com/Financial-Services/TeleTrader-Data-Universe-%281%29.aspx

We are also good to be adding in US stocks, Canadian stocks, US indexes. NYSE Liffe.

5. Interactive Data owns E-Signal. They are basically the same.

Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2014-01-08 09:53:34
[2014-01-08 13:51:50]
cmb999 - Posts: 160
my comment about data quality was referencing esignal subscription, not sierra. when their feed drops out, they are typically not able to recoup any gaps.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2014-01-08 13:52:05
[2014-01-10 14:28:57]
user511 - Posts: 5
Most people do not need 20 to 30 years of data. What happened back that far may be interesting to look at but is of really little practical genuine value for trading and investment purposes at the present time.

Actually it is relevant. Just the daily closing pricing, not the intraday prices.

For me , I would pay extra to have maybe 20 or 30 years of data. That's actually why I subscribe to Stockcharts and eSignal , to get this data (both are provided by Interactive Data)

The more closer the years, the more important. For example, to have data from 1990s is very useful - something that is not available with Sierra Chart but is available with I.D. services.

Data from 1980s and before is less useful, and anyway specialist services exist for this. However certainly for the last 20-30 years is essential , and that's why I subscribe to other services. if SC can give this data, I would pay extra (I would prefer to have it inside SC, not some 3rd party app eg. eSignal) . Most SC data only goes back 10 years.



We will be adding support for many exchanges. This is in progress now.


Yes , this is priority number 1. Increasingly I am interested in emerging market data , especially BM&F please add this exchange asap (it covers all of south america) .... also Chinese exchanges and asia exchanges.


The comment about data not always being good from SC, does not seem valid. Sierra Chart supports many Data and Trading services. Some of them are our own but many of them are external. So what particular service are you referring to here?

I don't have anything specific ... but sometimes data can appear broken or of lower quality. I noticed it with some of the less popular currencies, eg. BRLUSD. It's not a big deal however, since mainly the opening/closing price is important for me.

In summary, please focus #1 on more historical data and also #1 on more exchanges. Even charge more for it , but please do it would help alot. Thanks guys.

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