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[Locked] - Flex Renko Charting Problem
View Count: 3043
| [2017-12-01 00:04:35] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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I've just recently returned to using SC and noticed that the Flex Renko bars are not plotting as they have in the past. I use the 10-9-1 setting to create a trend channel and I'd plot OHLC bars on top of them which would show me the intrabar movement of the price. However, it seems your most recent versions of SC do not plot as smoothly as before, and using the OHLC setting you can see that the the open and closes are occurring intrabar all over the place. I've tried every new setting available, and I configured all of the settings (Gap fill = none / new trend bar when range exceeded/new reversal bar when reversal amount met). But as you can see from the screenshot, there are open and closes at different places within the bars which never occurred in previous versions. Can you please tell me what settings are needed to return to the simple/clean bars 10-9-1 channel bars as shown in the top portion of my attached screenshot? Or, if this is not possible, tell me what previous version of software I need to revert to, to get back to the original working version of Flex Renko? I don't care for the implementation of the current bars and prefer not to fight or debate about it as I've seen in a similar post. Thanks. |
 Flex Renko Problem.png / V - Attached On 2017-11-30 23:58:07 UTC - Size: 136.34 KB - 820 views |
| [2017-12-01 05:22:02] |
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You are looking at the true Open, High, Low, Close values as documented here: Renko Bar Charts: Renko Open, High, Low, Close Values They were not set correctly previously but they are now. You can see the Renko development on the What is New page: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/Whats_New.php So go back to an earlier version before the recent development. The version numbers are all there. I don't care for the implementation of the current bars and prefer not to fight or debate about it as I've seen in a similar post. Thanks. What was done previously just was not entirely right. Everything is 100% technically perfect at this time. This is unquestionably the case.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-12-01 05:53:29] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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Thank you. One last question. Since the previous implementation was beloved my many traders in SC and in other programs, even though it may be technically incorrect, is there any chance that you could keep the original flex bars as an additional bar option? Maybe call it Flex Bars Legacy Edition? Because rolling back to an earlier edition will not allow me access to future program updates. My entire Advanced Custom trading program was based on the use of those older, albeit incorrect bar types. Thanks.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-01 05:56:15
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| [2017-12-01 05:56:55] |
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No because the code is not considered acceptable or maintainable. It was done by another developer and not the core development team, and was not implemented consistent with the standardized framework.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-12-01 14:07:54] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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I hope you can understand that as traders, we are not concerned with the code, we are simply concerned of whether or not the tool works. To have a certain bar type for two or three years that traders have come to rely on, and then simply one day make it disappear because you don't like the code seems inconsiderate to the traders who have come to rely on these bars and who have built systems around them. Especially considering that the original SC type flex bars are in wide scale use in other programs. What's worse is you have 10 different "New trend bar..." options in the pulldown menu that most people will probably never use, but you won't keep the original flex bars. One last request... Since you won't keep the original bars as a separate bar type, is there any chance you could make the original Flex Bars settings part of the "New trend bar..." dropdown menu? Flex Bars Legacy (modified OHLC). |
| [2017-12-01 18:20:36] |
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Flex Renko bars do work properly and anyone can see that. The appearance is the same when using the Renko Bricks Graph Draw Type. And the work done on Renko bars were to address some problems that did exist and to unify the code base. Especially considering that the original SC type flex bars are in wide scale use in other programs. OK we do not get your point here. Flex Renko bars work properly and are identical to another implementation out there. There is no problem whatsoever. That has been proven by other support threads. And actually what we have proven is that in the other implementation, they are incorrectly implemented. But Sierra Chart has an option to perform the same incorrect behavior.Your question has to do with what is documented here: Renko Bar Charts: Renko Open, High, Low, Close Values The true OHLC values of Renko bars are according to what is documented and previously they should have been according to that as well. If not, then there was implementation problem previously. And that is now resolved. There are also numerous settings to control when new trend and reversal bars are started. You have enough flexibility. There is just that anything further we can do. And there is no one, who has any outstanding issues with Renko bars at this time. The remaining minor details have been resolved. We will not say anything further on this. You just need to use an older version and we did give you the relevant information for that. One final comment: do not plot as smoothly as before, and using the OHLC setting you can see that the the open and closes are occurring intrabar all over the place. Therefore, you should question whether Renko bars make any sense to use to begin with. That is the only rational analysis of this statement. Since what you are seeing is the actual true market activity based upon the initiation and finalization of each Renko bar. You can modify this behavior through the Renko New Bar Mode setting. We are here to deliver technical excellence, reliability, and perfection and that is what we have done. This is something that all users appreciate whether they are aware of it or not. In the case where gaps are being filled, you need to understand that behavior and it is documented here: Chart Settings: Intraday Chart Bar Period >> Gap Fill (Chart >> Chart Settings >> Bar Period >> Intraday Chart Bar Period Settings menu) Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-01 19:55:21
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| [2017-12-01 18:25:40] |
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Here is the other thread we were making reference to: Universal Renko bar fill on new bar creation What is nonsensical about all of this is that is that there is an insistence on faulty and incorrect logic. None of this is coming across as rational or making any sense. However, Sierra Chart does provide the option through the Renko New Bar Mode to implement this faulty and incorrect logic if one wants. Maybe there is some basis for this "faulty and incorrect logic", but it really doesn't make any sense to us. It seems more likely, it is simply the result of substandard programming, a mistake, or a design choice based upon limitations of this other trading platform. And once again the true OHLC values, represent the actual true values which occurred during the building of each chart bar. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-01 21:21:59
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| [2017-12-02 00:07:19] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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First, let me thank you for responding in a detailed, professional and polite manner. This wasn't always the case in the past. And I will just say one last thing. I can understand that keeping the old bars is nonsensical to you, because as a programmer you are only looking at it from the perspective of creating perfect code. So from your perspective, having bars that are not technically perfect seems to be substandard for your program and must be removed. But what you have to understand is that from a PRACTICAL trading standpoint, those incorrect bars that you loath so much are highly useful for traders and I suspect that is why your outside developer developed them in the way that he did. And I have tried all of the Renko New Bar Modes but was not able to recreate the old bars. I have paid programmers to create systems based on the ohlc of those older bars which are now rendered useless. As you can see from my screenshots, those old bars filtered price movement and served a purpose. I guess I have no choice but to rollback to an earlier version and forgo updates. Congratulations on creating the perfect code, at the expense of the wants and needs of your customers... |
| [2017-12-02 01:24:04] |
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The problem here is that there was no intent to change the true open high low close values. So if those are different this is unintended. and I suspect that is why your outside developer developed them in the way that he did. No, this is not really likely and is really just wishful thinking and a false belief. Renko bars were not done entirely right. We rebuilt them according to the written documentation which they were involved in as well. Which apparently was not thorough.Why not use the Renko open and close values? This would seem to make sense that the trading method would be based on those values. This is fully documented here: Renko Bar Charts: Renko Open, High, Low, Close Values It seems as though that is where the problem is. It would seem as though you could resolve the problem from your side. There are other threads on this board, pointing out faults with the previous Renko bars and where the additional development has added additional functionality which did not exist before and that users are happy with. Anyway, we are done with this thread. Just use an older version. We have nothing further to say here. Congratulations on creating the perfect code, at the expense of the wants and needs of your customers... You are pointing out a very very specialized item that other users are not relying on and which has no relevancy. And also we are more than happy to lose business over our recent development on Renko bars because what we have done is correct and our position is extremely firm. If we find a problem we will resolve it. You have raised no genuine issue whatsoever. You only pointed out that the prior code was not functioning properly according to proper specifications and the documentation. Our recent work on Renko bars was to resolve previous reported issues and we have accomplished that.And furthermore, the image you posted here: https://www.sierrachart.com/Download.php?Folder=SupportBoard&download=14734 Is comparing two totally different things. The chart above is from a different program which has no ability to show the true open high low and close values. Sierra Chart does give you that capability and that is what you are showing. You cannot make any valid comparison. It simply does not exist. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-02 21:53:52
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| [2017-12-02 22:11:43] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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I had to use a chart from another program because I no longer have the ability to take screenshots of the older SC Flex bars and what they looked like. But they were identical to the picture I displayed. But as you stated above, "you are more than happy to lose business over your recent Renko bars development..." That says it all and where your priorities are at... The point was never whether the bars were correct or not, there was no debate on that issue. The issue was whether you were able to compromise and still keep a version of the older bars for those customers who still wanted to use them. And you've now made your point very clear. You don't care about losing those customer's business... After hearing that, there is not much for me to say. Smh Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-02 22:15:05
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| [2017-12-02 22:18:48] |
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But there is not a fair comparison with the screenshots. In the chart you have from Sierra Chart you are not using Renko Bricks and instead you are using the standard Candlestick drawing style which is showing the true open high low close values. The general appearance should look identical when using Renko bricks in Sierra Chart. So anyone else looking at that screenshot, can get misled unless they comprehensively understand what you have done and what you are looking for. That is perfectly fine to us. We do not care about the misunderstanding. This thread is here to do all we can to help you. And we also contemplated what we could do to help you with this. But we concluded, there really is not anything we can do because the standard way in which the OHLC should have been set previously is according to the actual values during the formation of the Renko bar. And there are nine different options to control the initiation of a new bar, and another one which we are still working on. We cannot think of any other reasonable one which should be added. So we really do not know what we can do to help. And to our knowledge, you are the only user with an issue at this time with Renko bars and that is perfectly fine. We understand you have put reliance on the way Sierra Chart was working before and there is a problem now. We understand the nature of that issue. And if we could reasonably help with it, we will. At the moment, we do not know a reasonable solution. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-02 22:20:30
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| [2017-12-02 22:45:18] |
| User29926 - Posts: 92 |
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I see that SC support deleted my previous post about them not caring about their customers and willing to lose business. Plus the fact that there are other users who require the old Flex Renko bars. But its too late. I took a complete screen shot of the thread with the post in it. Social media is a wonderful tool to express your experiences with a company (good or bad). A company may censor a users concerns and experiences on their site, but they can't censor the user from the entire planet. A single social media post can reach millions of people in a few seconds. |
| [2017-12-03 00:29:44] |
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What you do not realize is that we welcome you to post what we said in 1,000,000 places on the Internet. We would be more than happy that you do that. And we encourage you to do so. Please spend all day on this for us. Nothing would make us happier. And furthermore, there is no problem with Flex Renko bars in the current version, and it would be highly unlikely that you cannot get what you need with the new implementation since all of the different operating modes (through Renko New Bar Mode) which are required from users, are supported. So if the issue is, that you want the old behavior, it is not clear what that is in your(GT trader) particular case. There has never been a clear and concise request from you in regards to that. Furthermore, if you think we are done with Renko development that is not really true. We are currently working on another mode requested here: Aligned Renko [New Trend Bar] selection not working current ver And there is also one other little detail involving reversals at the point of a gap which is not handled right in some cases. It is a non-typical scenario that we want to handle just perfectly. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-03 01:13:57
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| [2017-12-03 01:33:57] |
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Post #13 has been updated above. At this point, we are requesting both of you to go through an exercise on your own. the objective of this exercise, will allow you to determine what it is you really want rather than just saying you want the "old implementation", and validate whether what you really want is necessary or not. And we find it very hard to believe, that any reliance on the prior implementation, cannot be adapted to what we are currently offering especially being visibly, it is identical. Renko bars are documented here: Renko Bar Charts Read through that documentation in order to gain an understanding of Renko bars. We believe it is a very good definitive reference. Open a chart and set the chart bars to 1 Number of Trades Per Bar. If you need help with this, let us know. Set Chart >> Graph Draw Type to Line on Close. Examine each and every single trade and begin to draw on graph paper or whatever method you find appropriate, Renko bars according to the specifications and also draw another bar representing the true open high low close values. Using the underlying tick by tick data, and following the relevant specifications based on the particular Renko New Bar Mode you are using and other relevant settings, do you get a different result than what Sierra Chart is providing. If not, then you have to ask yourself, what is Sierra Chart doing improperly. Or what is it that you really are wanting, that Sierra Chart is not doing and does it really make sense in your mind that it should be that way? If you can express what you want, in actual terms rather than making reference to what was prior, then we will see if we can put that as a different operating mode. You really only have to go through this process for a couple of bars to get an idea of the difference. It should not be that difficult. And it is an important exercise to really gain a good understanding. It also is important to be very faithful with the handling of gaps. When there are price gaps, make sure the true open, high, low, close do not represent those because those were price levels that never traded. ---- And GT trader, in order for you to be balanced and objective, it is important to post this thread in its entirety containing everything we have said. If you want to take things out of context and tell a false story, that is up to you. You are most welcome to do that. But if you are going to be honest and objective, and want to properly express the position of Sierra Chart it is necessary to post this thread in its entirety in your work to expose the truth of this support request thread all over the Internet. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-03 01:37:49
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| [2017-12-03 05:38:11] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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I'm sorry but I stopped using graph paper in Junior High. Instead I've attached a screenshot explaining what I'm talking about. But even without the screenshot, what I don't understand is this... 1. The incorrectness of the original Flex bars is what made them unique. By changing to a true ohlc you change the functionality. Your outside developer developed the bars in the same way that your competitors software did because they realized what traders want. 2. You keep debating the fact of whether the true ohlc is the proper way to construct the bars, and as I said earlier, that is not the issue. If you look at my attached screenshots in this post, you will see there is a difference in the appearance of the two charts. 3. What I don't understand is if your developer developed them in a certain way for a reason, and your competitors software and other system creators also create the bars in the same way, that means there is a demand for the bars. But for some reason you don't seem to care about that and only care about being anal about whether the code is technically correct. 4. Rather than do the simple, logical thing and keep a version of the old bars for traders who have built systems around them, you take the stance that it's "your way, or no way!" You are so anal about the code, that you are forgetting the needs of your customers. You then put the responsibility on us, which means that some of us may have to pay to have things reprogrammed. And I'm sure there are others who preferred the old bars but who do not wish to get into a back and forth debate such as I've had to endure. Then to add insult to injury, you say you're more than happy to lose customers over this (which I see you have since deleted) But kept my post saying how polite you are... Anyway, I've said all I can say. This is exhausting. I've attached a screenshot and you can decide whether that's enough to warrant keeping the old bars as a different operating mode as you suggested. |
| Example.png / V - Attached On 2017-12-03 05:35:35 UTC - Size: 76.72 KB - 345 views |
| [2017-12-03 10:35:39] |
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1. This statement makes no sense whatsoever. Flex Renko bars have always been built upon the true high and low values of the underlying data records. Nothing has changed. You simply do not have the proper perspective to even be commenting on this. 2. You cannot make the comparison you are in the attached chart image. You are comparing a substandard piece of software ninja trash to a very very capable sophisticated program like Sierra Chart. Of course you are going to see the fake close values at the extreme of those chart bars because it is not capable of anything else. Sierra Chart also provides the Renko Close value as well. Why you do not use that, we do not know. But do not bother to tell us here. That is up to you. 3. At this present time we are delivering what users are requiring. The simple fact is you do not even realize why you see what you do. If you were to look at the Tool Values Window for each bar, you will see the correct OHLC values: Chart Drawing Tools: Tool Values Window The overlay that you are doing, is not copying the bars correctly because you are not using tick by tick data. It is giving you a false impression. 4. If you have to pay for reprogramming, and sometimes you have to realize that would be necessary but we do not even see that is the case here at all. Furthermore, if you are not expressing an issue, until you sort of did in this last post, then we are not going to understand it. What you are enduring is simply the inability to properly express the issue. But actually you are expressing not any genuine issue at all. You are only showing a problem with the overlay study. Will see if we can solve that. But not necessarily. This is what we see: http://www.sierrachart.com/image.php?Image=1512293582220.png This chart is using tick by tick data. The problem is you are not using tick by tick data, so the overlay is not actually overlaying the true data for each bar in some cases but rather the first bar which is getting split into other bars subsequent to it. And we have GT trader posting in this thread thinking that he knows what he is talking about and latching onto a thread which is likely unrelated to whatever issue he has. And then he goes out of his way to do advertising for us which he thinks is going to hurt. We do not share that view. And even if hypothetically it does hurt, we really do not care because Renko bars do work properly and they have a wide range of configurations which do meet the requirements of our users. If there any genuine issues we will always resolve those. Then to add insult to injury, you say you're more than happy to lose customers over this (which I see you have since deleted)
That still exist in post #9. We do not know how you come to that conclusion that it was deleted. Obviously you are coming to a false conclusion even though you can see our wording right in front of you at all times. When we say we are willing to lose business over this, we mean it. And it is fine for us for that to be posted everywhere on the Internet. We tell it like it is. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-04 08:58:04
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| [2017-12-03 10:50:50] |
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If you think we do not care, do you realize that this support request cost us about over 250 USD to go through this. We can only spend so much time on this stuff and that is why if we are convinced there is not a problem we are going to be blunt and to the point and tell users that . And anyone who wants to post this thread anywhere else, we encourage you. Thank you for the free advertising. Thank you so much. If anything we deserve an apology here. But really we do not care about that. The simple fact is we do our best for our users. We have excellent and high standards and keep raising the standard as high as we can. We are not always perfect. However, both of you clearly are on the wrong track here. You have convinced us of absolutely nothing. Other than the fact that we need to look at applying a millisecond to the split bars. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-03 10:54:47
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| [2017-12-03 18:04:51] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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And what settings are you using to arrive at the screenshot you posted? My Intraday Data Storage Time Unit under the Data/Trade service settings has always been set to 1 tick, but my charts do not resemble yours.
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| [2017-12-04 08:55:50] |
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The problem is you are using Interactive Brokers forex data. So the historical data is going to be in 30 seconds units. Also we do have the problem resolved with the repeating bars where you do not see the true close at or near the Renko bar close. We needed to apply a millisecond to those individual Renko bars so that they have a unique timestamp. The new version will be out in a day or two. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-12-04 20:27:06] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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I figured out the proper configuration used in your screenshot. Thx.
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| [2017-12-05 04:59:19] |
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We have released version 1658 which solves the overlay issue.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-12-05 05:45:16] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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Okay, I see it's the pre release version that is available.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-05 05:51:52
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| [2017-12-05 22:27:33] |
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Yes. It was previously the prerelease but it is now the main release as well. The current version is now 1659. Also we are familiar with that NT universal Renko code. It is very simplistic and illogical, and is lower quality code. What Sierra Chart offers for Renko bars is vastly more thorough and technically accurate and far more capable. The amount of code behind SC Renko bars is considerably more thorough and more advanced and well structured. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-12-05 22:28:30
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| [2017-12-06 00:31:52] |
| rwilliams1 - Posts: 339 |
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I just had an additional question about the bars. I switched to using SC historical data instead of Interactive Brokers so that I can be sure the tick information being received is correct. And I have noticed there are places where the bars have displayed some unusual behavior (see attached screenshots). It seems to be happening on some of the reversal bars. I know it's not the data causing this, so I'm hoping you can point out what this may be? Thx again.
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| Example.png / V - Attached On 2017-12-06 00:23:39 UTC - Size: 48.39 KB - 344 views |
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