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Direct MessagesDate/Time: Wed, 01 May 2024 14:52:03 +0000
From TT: We are currently investigating order routing issues for CME
View Count: 8497
| [2021-02-16 17:52:14] |
| User920967 - Posts: 62 |
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Yea, its clear to me TT is responsible, but what matters to me now is how do i trade tomorrow considering i use denali feed and order routing? I expect Sierra will answer this at some point today.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-02-16 19:51:11
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| [2021-02-16 18:26:18] |
| user_xyz - Posts: 369 |
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FWIW You can check TT server status here... as of this post they are still experiencing issues https://status.trade.tt/#/ |
| [2021-02-16 18:36:28] |
| User937576 - Posts: 24 |
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AMP said TT will have to go through all phantom trades that were executed 10-15minutes (or severely delayed anyway) later, correct the account and send users notice. We shall see, not holding my breath.
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| [2021-02-16 19:45:52] |
| user2837 - Posts: 76 |
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This appears to be a much bigger issue at TT than it appeared on Sunday. Their original message was that people with private servers hosted by TT were not affected and only some in the general pool were. The scope has gradually expanded to include everyone trading with TT. AMP confirmed to me that my account was flat this morning. If that can be believed, I don't know. I have been trying to flatten since 6:30 pm ET on Sunday.
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| [2021-02-16 20:10:17] |
| user_xyz - Posts: 369 |
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This is a good example of why I like to keep multiple brokers with different data/feeds/routing services for technical issues like this. $h!T happens... Last year IB was down for an extended period of time other accounts up. Today IB up all day no issues. You could see it in the price action as well, across everything I'm assuming was large block trades, squaring up positions to straighten the mess out - huge volume would come through and price would barely wiggle eg: CL ~7:15am, ~9K contracts
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-02-16 20:11:41
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| [2021-02-16 23:06:18] |
| theunknowntrader - Posts: 112 |
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Thanks to all this garbage i lost about $500 today, Sierra, are you going to pay me back the $500 I lost when you closed my order???? Robinhood P2 |
| [2021-02-16 23:42:06] |
| User937576 - Posts: 24 |
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marcelperez, it was not Sierra's fault. It was all TT, and it affected TT users that were not routing through Sierra too. Your broker should be letting you know that they're dealing with TT to correct any wrong order/position. |
| [2021-02-16 23:50:58] |
| theunknowntrader - Posts: 112 |
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Who hires TT? is it sierra for denali or is it the broker???
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| [2021-02-17 00:02:14] |
| User937576 - Posts: 24 |
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Sierra obviously. And it seems the guys at Sierra are as upset as we all are. What happened today should have never happened, on any platform. TT has great reputation and honestly I'm shocked that they f*cked up so bad today, allowing phantom orders to actually be executed 10-15mins after they DID NOT GO THROUGH in real time. At one point I was (stuck) long 25 MNQ, profits of about 700P (couldn't close my position, could only see price go up), then it started working again and I did reduce my position to 5 MNQ long. Then all of a sudden they executed all the phantom orders that didn't go through during the outage, and immediately showed I was short 16 MNQ, instead of long, and all profits evaporated but 27P. At that point I flattened (and managed to, so TT was working) and contacted my broker (AMP) who was swamped with similar requests from other customers. After a while AMP decided to disable all trading and close all open positions, as they realised the severity of the situation - no one knew whether they had open positions, how big, which kind etc. We'll see tonight after TT and AMP go through all the affected accounts and trades.
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| [2021-02-17 00:02:38] |
| User236347 - Posts: 21 |
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Five of my OPEN short positions (as well as two phantom orders) were closed for me retroactively yesterday night FOR A REALIZED LOSS. This morning 4 additional phantom orders appeared BEFORE AMP suspended trading for TT/SC Denali. Here is the last update from AMP - https://imgur.com/a/KSswtQ6 As of this writing, it appears that all of my positions are FLAT in my account.... minus over $3,000 to my margin balance in realized cash losses (the OPEN positions I had last night were CLOSED for me WITHOUT my knowledge or consent near the ATH). I no longer have any confidence that the numbers or trades that appear on my console/screen are real when using Sierra Chart/Denali exchange. |
 wtfamp11.png / V - Attached On 2021-02-16 23:56:16 UTC - Size: 132.85 KB - 249 views |
| [2021-02-17 00:31:28] |
| user_xyz - Posts: 369 |
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I'll post an update here... Was on a conference call with TT, AMP and myself for nearly an hour. Nothing can be done until statements are generated tonight. AMP could see my open orders a total of 25 futures legit contracts (CL, SI, NG) but couldn't cancel them (they were locked), we get TT on the phone and after sometime he could see my orders as well but couldn't cancel. AMP said that there is nothing they can do until TT manually reviews orders and statements are generated. Unsurprisingly he was tight lipped about what was going to happen and how things would be reconciled. Both mentioned this was uncharted territory... At least with AMP as of this post, trading is entirely shutdown. You can't cancel orders, place trades, close positions, etc. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-02-17 00:36:55
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| [2021-02-17 00:50:55] |
| User816220 - Posts: 80 |
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I haven't traded at all since early morning on 2/15. I should have had no open orders or positions since then. Looking at Sierra's logs from 2/16, it looks like AMP's auto-liquidator managed to open and close two positions on my behalf. Both were for losses. 09:57 - A flurry of cancelled and restated orders shows up in the log
10:00 - CL and ES positions updated to quantity 1 each 11:51 - Two sell orders for CL and ES, qty 1 each, from SenderSubID: AMPRISK1 are filled 11:51 - Positions updated to quantity 0 15:04 - Sierra reports overfills for CL and ES, new position is -1 each 15:05 - Two buy orders for CL and ES, qty 1 each, from SenderSubID: AMPRISK1 are filled 15:05 - Positions updated to quantity 0 The orders at 11:51 and 15:05 have this in the OrderActionSource: SC Futures Order Routing/Data order update (Order update). Info: TT order update (New). Text: Order Added by AutoLiquidation | ExchID: xxx | SenderSubID: AMPRISK1 | New order originated from external service | New order originated from external service
The original phantom orders from 02/15 only had a: - ServiceOrderID - FillExecutionServiceID By contrast, the AMPRISK1 orders have an: - InternalOrderID - ServiceOrderID - FillExecutionServiceID - ExchangeOrderID So I'm guessing that AMP's auto-liquidator really did send those orders and get those fills. |
| [2021-02-17 00:53:34] |
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AMP could see my open orders a total of 25 futures legit contracts (CL, SI, NG) but couldn't cancel them (they were locked), we get TT on the phone and after sometime he could see my orders as well but couldn't cancel.
Orders can be canceled through CME Firm Soft as we understand or whatever means the CME provides the clearing firms. You have access to the actual CME order identifiers. They are in the Order Action Source field of the Trade Activity Log: Trade Activity Log: Viewing Historical Trade Activity TT does not need to be involved here. AMP, should be able to get those orders canceled through the exchange no problem. Sierra obviously. And it seems the guys at Sierra are as upset as we all are. What happened today should have never happened, on any platform. Yes this should not have happened.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-02-17 00:54:54
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| [2021-02-17 01:07:21] |
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Does sc have a time-frame for when their direct routing to CME will be available? We will get this out as soon as possible and we are prioritizing it.The delay relates to the more difficult process to go through CME certification than expected. Basic order routing is very easy but there are certainly many other details to consider. There are many formalities we have to complete first. And also minor detail or two with risk management. I understand Sierra was not responsible for this, BUT Sierra is our provider. They should have an alternative if situations like this happen. There was always full connectivity to TT at all times with full redundancy. TT should have had redundancy as well but there was a failure on the TT side with this. We had full connectivity at all times. We have not had any connectivity interruptions at any point in time.And as far as an alternative to this service, there is CQG available (Although continue to use the Denali Exchange Data Feed when using CQG please. We definitively recommend that). And Rithmic is also working on new integration to Sierra Chart. And we also have our direct CME order routing which is coming. We really recommend that users wait for our own direct CME order routing. But the basic point is that the connectivity was maintained and TT should have done a much better job and should not have had this incident to begin with. So what does this mean at this point in time. We need to eventually phase out the reliance on TT for the Sierra Chart order routing service and that has been the plan. While we want to get this done as soon as possible, it has not been a priority and there is not been a serious incident like this since August 2019. So the track record has been good since then. So there has not been an urgency, but we are getting very close to getting our own order routing out. As far as what you need to do now if using the Sierra Chart Order Routing Service. We can submit orders and modify and cancel them. So from our perspective everything is fine at the moment. Our account is with Dorman. So we do not observe any problem at the moment. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-02-17 01:55:34
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| [2021-02-17 07:09:46] |
| User816220 - Posts: 80 |
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So I'm guessing that AMP's auto-liquidator really did send those orders and get those fills.
I guessed correctly, those trades showed up on my statement. I sent in a dispute to AMP; let's see what they have to say. |
| [2021-02-17 07:20:11] |
| User191165 - Posts: 28 |
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Hello, regarding the TT order issues I placed 4 Trades for the 16th Feb my last trade was at 15:03 GMT Following each closed trade I manually CANCEL & FLATTEN as a safety measure. Before closing my platform and powering down my PC at approx 19.15 GMT I again CANCEL and FLATTEN. There were no open orders However I have a long position showing placed at 21:40:22 and closed at 21:40:27 for -$74.44 ? I DID NOT PLACE THIS ORDER! I have informed AMP and anticipate that they will require further proof. I have tried to locate my logs (C: Sierra/Logs) for the 16th Feb to detail the above but have been unsuccessful. Please advise. Thanks |
| [2021-02-17 07:52:02] |
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Regarding post #40, we have the information for you. We are sending you a ticket about this.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2021-02-17 07:56:32] |
| User937576 - Posts: 24 |
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Sierra, how do I get my exact time & sales for all the transactions that were logged in please? AMP reports statements without time of transactions.
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| [2021-02-17 07:58:35] |
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You need to just look at the Trade Activity Log: Trade Activity Log: Viewing Historical Trade Activity There is a Date-Time field for every line in the log. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2021-02-17 08:32:57] |
| User123179 - Posts: 27 |
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Hi here is screen shot of all my apparent trades this week, non of which were entered by me, is there anything I need to do to prevent further false orders, Im not getting much in the way of reply's or guidance from AMP Hoping this situation can be resolved as the corresponding account is almost wiped now due to this issue.
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| Screenshot 2021-02-17 193219.png / V - Attached On 2021-02-17 08:32:38 UTC - Size: 93.53 KB - 257 views Attachment Deleted. |
| [2021-02-17 12:15:30] |
| Kutyasa - Posts: 21 |
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The trading service you strongly recommend (Sierra Chart Order Routing - TT) has been halted by AMP for more than 24 hours now and there's NO news as to when the services will be available again at this point. Although you state that you "are definitely very happy with the Sierra Chart Order Routing architecture" and that "The redundancy, worked exactly as expected", the fact is AMP is still working on the issue and has no estimate as to when will functionality be restored. Although you strongly recommend the service, you state that "This is strictly a TT issue. This is not within the control of Sierra Chart.". This is not what one would describe by owning your recommendation. So, given the situation, I tried to investigate within your site what are the available alternatives and I have found the following interesting and somewhat contradictory statements to which I'd like your comments so I can make a decision to switch services or not: The following statements were obtained from the page CQG Trading Platform Service and other pages (1) We recommend that new users or users trading the CME Group of markets only, use the Sierra Chart Order Routing service with Data instead of CQG. Sierra Chart as of November 1, 2019, will only provide support to CQG users within our discretion. We are not able to help with data lagging issues, disconnection issues, or other types of data issues encountered. (2) Sierra Chart supports the CQG Trading platform service. The Sierra Chart trading features fully support the CQG trading platform service. Sierra Chart supports the CQG Web API connection for trading when using CQG. Which statements are true today: (1) or (2) or both for someone trading CME only? Do TT services even with a disconnection of a whole trading day still offer better value than CQG? |
| [2021-02-17 12:35:13] |
| User937576 - Posts: 24 |
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User 832002 (post 45), I'm not defending Sierra just because, but this is completely TT's fault. Sierra never lost connectivity, I could see every trade, no delays etc. Just the orders wouldn't go through, which is TT's fault. I hope AMP realises that what happened yesterday is completely unacceptable and the phantom trades that didn't get executed in real time (market orders, eh!!!) but instead were executed with severe delay (in my case, almost 15 mins later) at prices that were so far from the actual bid/ask NEED TO BE CANCELLED. As well as those trades that were never placed by users/traders, but instead somehow happened when AMP was closing down all open positions in the aftermath. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-02-17 12:35:45
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| [2021-02-17 12:56:31] |
| User657945 - Posts: 226 |
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Agee USer 937576 as per massage here got from AMP, but the fact is that the Sc rounting service is based on TT and I can't trade CME, I think the only solution is to have all in with Sierra oruting orders. TT Outage : CME Order Routing Issues (PENDING) We are going to disable trading on CME today. NO NEW Trades. We are going begin manually Closing all OPEN positions on CME and cancelling any working orders. We will then disable trading on TT - until further notice We will email you once this is done. |
| [2021-02-17 13:22:54] |
| Kutyasa - Posts: 21 |
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I don't think the issue at hand is who to blame but how do we (clients) make sure we're not in this situation again. 24+ hours of disabled paid service is unacceptable. Not being informed by text, email of the problem at the moment it occurred is also unacceptable (emails were sent hours later when users realized trading was disabled). Blaming other parties also not constructive. As the only party who's paying for a service and at risk here during this mess, I think we need to understand what our options are without taking into consideration wishful thinking or marketing considerations. The information throughout SC site is not clear, precise and succinct enough as described in my original post. |
| [2021-02-17 13:37:45] |
| User937576 - Posts: 24 |
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Well, I want to know which service/party/who is to blame. And so far it seems clear to me TT was responsible for fucking up MY service once I started trading (after the RTH open), and I want that party to be liable for phantom trades/mishandled orders/automated trades that were never entered by me. Is AMP (my broker) responsible too? Is Sierra? Ok, then all three need to cooperate and rectify their mistakes done yesterday. ASAP. Then we'll see about the future, it will be my choice whether to change service(s) or not. But I want all wrongful trades to be rectified and the money back in my account.
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| [2021-02-17 13:48:04] |
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For those with AMP accounts, and who have service interruptions and losses, refer to: TT Based Order Routing Service: TT Interruption | Post: 252106 AMP is still working on the situation. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
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