Support Board
Support Board
Search Board
Control Panel
View My Posts / Threads
Direct MessagesDate/Time: Sun, 28 Apr 2024 04:20:40 +0000
Price discrepency between 2 data suppliers for the price low of Natural Gas cash
View Count: 1348
| [2016-12-26 20:32:24] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
Hi and Merry Christmas, I recently updated my computer to a new unit and therefore had to reload SC onto it. My previous version was 1282 and the data supplier was SC Forex Data (FXCM) ... and I am using the same data on the new computer c/w the latest SC version 1495. However, I also check prices against Barchart.com from time to time, and noticed quite a variation for Nat Gas cash. My charts for Natural gas using FXCM indicate the major low for NG was $1.60 on March 4, 2016 ... yet the Barchart.com low was $1.49 on the same date of March 4, 2016. Am I using the wrong chart symbol somehow, or is there a reason for this discrepency? I also note a few of my other charts have had a small yellow pop up window appear on them indicating the symbol has changed. So why would they appear on the charts using 1495 version, yet never appear on my laptop that uses the 1282 version? I certainly would like to resolve this, as I use these major lows in my calculations for price projections and retracements, and they need to be accurate. I'm hoping free data is as accurate as the product from other suppliers that charge for the service. Maybe you can recommend another free data feed that is perhaps more accurate. Thanks in advance for your help. Best Regards, Jim |
| [2016-12-26 22:19:06] |
| |
|
The FXCM symbol NGAS is a CFD symbol and you cannot compare that to futures prices. Most likely you are looking at futures prices on Barchart.com. There will be differences. If you want to look at futures prices, open a chart through File >> Find Symbol >> Futures - Energies. The natural gas symbols begin with NG. What is the exact text you see in the yellow text message? Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-12-26 22:20:00
|
| [2016-12-27 00:38:27] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
Ok, pardon my ignorance, but I don't know what a CFD symbol is ... and I don't use the NGAS symbol on FXCM ... I've been using NG#.dly I'm well aware the natural gas futures start with NG, plus a letter corresponding to a specific contract month, followed by the the last 2 digits of the contract year. BUT ... the long term daily, weekly and monthly charts are based on cash ... and that symbol on Barchart.com is NGY00. Anyhow, a light just turned on in my brain ... I just now tried that Barchart.com symbol on the SC FXCM data ... entered it as NGY000.dly ... and it worked!! I now have the charts showing the $1.49 low ... which is great. However I'm still confused just exactly what it is that NG#.dly is charting ... and why the difference in prices. OH well. Regarding the yellow bar that pops up ... they read "Symbol needs Rollover. Click to Rollover." When I do that after the chart is converted from daily to monthly bars, and click on the yellow bar, a small window titled "Futures Window Rollover" shows up, with another heading below that which says "Historical daily chart" ... and below that it states the "current symbol, NGY00" and "new symbol NGF00". When I click OK ... the chart converts the bars to a yearly chart, even though the title bar at the bottom of the screen says monthly. And then it just wants to put up another yellow bar that needs a another rollover, as before. Only now the symbols progress through the month contract letters, one at a time ... Now NGF00 is the current symbol and new one is NGG00 ... and it still becomes a yearly chart. It will just keep going if I click ok on the yellow bar each time. Interestingly, once that yearly chart is up on screen, I can't convert the bars back to a monthly or weekly chart. So ... there you have it. Probably better off to ignore the rollover, and just leave it be. I removed those yearly charts that came up, and never saved anything either when I closed SC down. Any further help or suggestions would be appreciated. Thx, Jim |
| [2016-12-27 00:42:22] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
Should have proof read my last reply ... the symbol I entered was NGY00.dly ... not NG000.dly Thx, Jim |
| [2016-12-27 10:01:43] |
| |
|
Symbols with a # while they work, they are not supported by us any longer. You need to use the Continuous Futures Contract feature instead: Continuous Futures Contract Charts If you are fine using the symbol NGY00 for the cash market, then we are not sure what questions you still have. the chart converts the bars to a yearly chart, even though the title bar at the bottom of the screen says monthly. This makes no sense to us. We do not see how this is even possible. Changing the symbol has no effect on the duration of the chart bars. This is not even technically possible.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-12-27 13:24:50] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
I've been a subscriber for quite some time ... guess I missed the memo regarding symbols using a # in their id not being supported any longer. Obviously I will have to go through all my charts and redo those that did have the # sign in the symbol. Your disclosure that I need to be using continuous futures contract charts for establishing weekly and monthly charts indicates I have been doing a lot of my weekly and monthly charts wrong. In the past I would open a new historical chart in daily form (commodities using the #.dly). Once that chart appeared, I would click on the label on the bottom bar, and duplicate the chart to the same chartbook. Then I simply opened the charts tab on the top task bar, clicked on bar periods, then selected the time duration ... either weekly, monthly, quarterly, yearly, etc.. The chart immediately converted to the time frame requested. Then I'd duplicate the chart again, and convert it to the next larger time frame. In all cases I would rename the chart on the bottom bar for id purposes. So this is the procedure I used on all previous versions of SC that I used, ie. version 1282, and never had a yellow bar window appear requesting "symbol needs rollover". Maybe it is this procedure that causes this ... the chart converts the bars to a yearly chart, even though the title bar at the bottom of the screen says monthly. This makes no sense to us. We do not see how this is even possible. Changing the symbol has no effect on the duration of the chart bars. This is not even technically possible. I have always been of the impression (apparently wrongly so) that a weekly or monthly chart were not the same as weekly or monthly continuation contract. |
| [2016-12-27 19:26:07] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
After looking at your continuous contract feature at Continuous Futures Contract Charts and reading through the details, I know I won't be using that. The charts that are affected on my chartbook are all commodities ... such as NG, CL, ES, YM, NQ, GC, SI, and all the grains, oilseeds ... all have multiple charts, on each of multiple bar periods, using the data supplied by the symbols with the # in them, as discussed earlier. At least all my stock charts are not affected by this. My question is, can I somehow open each of the existing charts, and change the symbol ... so that the chart will update the price data info and still maintain the chart graphs I already have in place for retracements, Gann Fans, price projections, etc.? Or ... are they all do-overs from scratch? |
| [2016-12-27 19:38:15] |
| |
|
I know I won't be using that. Why is that? can I somehow open each of the existing charts, and change the symbol ... so that the chart will update the price data info and still maintain the chart graphs I already have in place for retracements, Gann Fans, price projections, etc.?
Yes as long as Show Chart Drawings for Different Symbols is enabled:http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/ChartSettings.html#ShowChartDrawingsForDifferentSymbol How far back in time do you want to view historical daily data for the futures markets mentioned? Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-12-27 19:40:30
|
| [2016-12-27 19:44:19] |
| |
|
Your disclosure that I need to be using continuous futures contract charts for establishing weekly and monthly charts indicates I have been doing a lot of my weekly and monthly charts wrong.
The # character after a futures contract base symbol does indicate a Continuous Futures Contract symbol but the data using that symbol is not entirely reliable. This is why you want to use the Sierra Chart Continuous Futures Contract feature instead. What you have been doing is not wrong, but not the most accurate and reliable way. Also be sure to read our prior post. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-12-27 19:45:00
|
| [2016-12-28 00:12:24] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
Ok thanks. I'm going to answer your questions in reverse order ... mainly because your last post really raised my eyebrows. You stated ... The # character after a futures contract base symbol does indicate a Continuous Futures Contract symbol but the data using that symbol is not entirely reliable. This is why you want to use the Sierra Chart Continuous Futures Contract feature instead. What you have been doing is not wrong, but not the most accurate and reliable way. My Question 1 ... who is supplying that # symbol data and why is it not entirely reliable?? Please explain the advantage of using the SC Continuous Futures Contract feature in more detail compared to # symbol data. Previous to that post you asked ... How far back in time do you want to view historical daily data for the futures markets mentioned? Answer ... As far back as I can get. I'd prefer to see 25 year charts on all the commodities at a minimum ... and ideally right from the start of futures contract trading of each particular commodity. Maybe most of your clients are day traders, and only need short term chart analysis ... but for me, all the major resistance points for any given entity going forward is able to be calculated from the price ranges much earlier on in the life of that entity. Accurate data is a must. My Question 2 ... is it possible to use Barchart.com data feed into SC and get the 25 year charts they offer on their own website? Or is the time duration the same as FXCM (mostly 10 years, some a little more) I also note it is the Barchart data that has the Y00 (cash) symbol behind the commodity abbreviations ... ie. NGY00, CLY00, ESY00, GCY00, etc., etc.. Is this a standard symbol with all data feed suppliers? Question 3 ... this is more to do with stocks, but is data from yahoo finance available through SC? Lots of their data goes right back to first trade date. I'll answer your question about not wanting to use SC continuous futures contract data in my next post. |
| [2016-12-28 01:22:55] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
You asked why I was not in favor of using SC Continuous Futures Chart data. I'll just copy the wording you use in describing it ... Using Continuous Futures Contract Charts [Link] - [Top] The Continuous Contract options are a very powerful feature that activates the Continuous Futures Contract chart feature for both Historical and Intraday charts. When one of the Continuous Contract options is selected other than None, the chart will load in historical futures contracts going back from the futures contract specified with the Symbol setting in the chart and based upon the Use Number of Days to Load or Use Date Range settings in the Chart Settings window. Automatic back adjustment of data is supported. The Continuous Futures Contract Chart feature is only for futures contracts. It is not for any other kind of market. It will not have any effect with stock, cash index, or market statistics symbols. Therefore, do not use it with these symbols because it is completely unnecessary and adds unnecessary messages to the Message Log. My concern is ... how complicated can this "back adjustment of data" become? You say it is automatic ... is there a standardized calculation that applies to every commodity ... or is it trial and error for each one? Also of concern is price differentials between the continuous charts and cash. Since I started this whole debate in regards to Natural Gas price differentials, lets compare monthly charts between continuous NG#. and NGY00 cash ... NG# chart shows a high close at 13.90 in Sept. 2005, a spike high at 15.80 in Dec. 2005, and recent major low at 1.61 in March 2016 ... range = 14.19 NGY00 cash shows a high close @ 15.00 in Sept. 2005, a spike high at 15.41 in Dec. 2005, and recent major low at 1.49 in March 2016 ... range = 13.92 ------- ----- ----- ----- 1.10 0.39 0.12 0.27 So many of the price projections and retracements I use involve the range between highs and lows of various waves within the structure to establish targets ... and if the range was the same, It wouldn't matter which method a person used. I have not tried NG yet in the Continuous Futures Contract Charts that you recommended earlier today, in order to see how it compares to prices obtained by NG# continuous yet. Maybe at the end of it all, one should just stick to one method. |
| [2016-12-28 03:42:38] |
| |
|
.. who is supplying that # symbol data and why is it not entirely reliable?? There is a reason why we do not provide support for these symbols. In short, there can be missing data, inaccurate data, and incorrect rollover dates. You do not want to use these symbols. We will not say anything further about this.For the amount of historical data available when using the Continuous Futures Contract feature, refer to: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/ContinuousFuturesContractCharts.html#Limitations You can temporarily change your service package to 5 to get the initial history, then after that you can change it back to 3. Let us know if you want us to do that. is it possible to use Barchart.com data feed into SC and get the 25 year charts they offer on their own website? We do not know what symbols you are referring to. In any case, there should be no need for this. But if you want more history you can use the SC Exchange Data Feed as explained in the Limitations link above.You can use the cash market symbols that end with Y00. Any unanswered questions are not within the scope of our support and will not receive a response. how complicated can this "back adjustment of data" become? The Barchart symbols you have been using are not back adjusted, so back adjustment is not something you want to use. Therefore, this is not relevant.You have to decide whether you want to use the cash market symbols or the futures symbols. The cash market will be more stable pricing assuming the price data is available. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-12-28 03:43:52
|
| [2016-12-29 06:09:16] |
| User767336 - Posts: 39 |
|
Thanks for your information in the above comments. You stated ... For the amount of historical data available when using the Continuous Futures Contract feature, refer to: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/ContinuousFuturesContractCharts.html#Limitations You can temporarily change your service package to 5 to get the initial history, then after that you can change it back to 3. Let us know if you want us to do that. I will likely take you up on this, but I want to spend a few days building some cash charts in a couple of the markets I follow, and then comparing those charts with my existing #.dly charts first. I know you said ... There is a reason why we do not provide support for these symbols. In short, there can be missing data, inaccurate data, and incorrect rollover dates. You do not want to use these symbols. We will not say anything further about this. However past experience using various charting tools in combination with this #.dly data has produced some amazing results regarding resistance and support targets ... for whatever reason. So I'll do some comparisons and get back to you in a week or so. I have produced so many of these charts in all the commodities I follow ... maybe it's worth keeping them in a separate chart book ... let them run and do more comparisons again later. Thanks again for you input. Regards, Jim |
To post a message in this thread, you need to log in with your Sierra Chart account: