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Direct MessagesDate/Time: Sat, 27 Apr 2024 17:42:37 +0000
True Data India Data Feed: Public Offer (Currently Withdrawn)
View Count: 9027
| [2016-02-29 03:33:05] |
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There has been interest in Sierra Chart supporting the data feed from True Data in India: https://www.truedata.in/ Sierra Chart currently does support Global Data Feeds using a FIX connection but they have had problems with their FIX data feed and are no longer offering it because of problem reports. So effectively it is not available. This particular issue is a Global Data Feeds issue and not with Sierra Chart. Getting back to True Data, we contacted True Data back in 2015 and found out that kind of interface to their service that they use is an E-Signal compatible interface which uses an in process API or something like that. This is not acceptable to us as we do not support those components. Our position on this is here: Http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/helpdetails76.html We asked them to support the DTC Protocol and gave them a financial incentive to do so and they said they were planning to do that. The offer was not accepted in a reasonable amount of time and as the end of 2015 came the offer was withdrawn because it was a very valuable offer far in excess of the cost of their development and we questioned whether they would be putting together a good quality server. They also told us they are developing some kind of HTTP type of interface to their data feed. So we thought it would be best for us to program to their HTTP to interface instead. We inquired about the status of the availability of their HTTP interface about the middle of February. We thought this was some kind of web-based HTTP type of interface. They came back to us with an undocumented interface which requires that we create a DLL which interfaces into a client-side executable and then we then bridge Sierra Chart to the DLL by using an interprocess communication method. This is a highly unusual interface that we have never seen before and effectively it is an in process API type of component because we would have to write code which interfaces into the address space of the proprietary executable program. These types of components are not supported and this is explained here: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/helpdetails76.html They are utilizing a local client-side server to serve multiple charting and trading applications. This type of design is acceptable and we can work with it so long as it provides interface through a local TCP/IP network socket connection. This is not what it provides. Interactive Brokers and DTN IQ Feed also provide a local client-side server program to serve multiple charting and trading applications. Each of those provides an interface through a local TCP/IP network socket connection. The specific communication over the connection is proprietary but the general method in which they work is that they accept request messages and send back response messages and streaming data. All of this is just based on common sense. So we do not understand the basis of the True Data interface . Certainly we were never consulted and this is inconsistent with norms in this industry. So all of this is rather puzzling to us. The interface approach the True Data has taken really surprises us, because it we have seen a move away from these proprietary executable based methods of integration. Virtually no one out there is doing anything like this these days because they all realize it is complicated, OS and compiler specific, proprietary and has various issues and limitations. Therefore, we have no intention of programming to this Windows/Microsoft/True Data proprietary DLL interface because it is against our policy and will be the source of problems and difficulties for us and for users. Our policies are based upon a huge amount of experience and common sense. We are once again, interested in having True Data adopt the DTC Protocol: HTTP://DTCProtocol.org Basically we will make Sierra Chart available for use with the True Data feed at reduced prices up to a certain amount of sales to give them them a financial incentive to adopt the DTC Protocol. The exact pricing we will privately communicated to True Data. This is an offer for a unilateral contract which can be accepted on the part of True Data by them initiating the development of a DTC compatible Server. We will provide the technical help they need and we will expect that this is done to a high-quality and proper standard. As soon as True Data begins the development on this effort, the offer cannot be withdrawn by us under the common law of contracts. However, if True Data still has an HTTP interface coming, we are interested in that and perhaps that is what we will use rather than them developing a DTC compatible server. However, the streaming portion of their HTTP service, could use a web socket and DTC compatible messages. So before they do any development on this, they need to consider this and consult with us. Once again they do not have to write any documentation because the DTC documentation already exists. Below is the most recent message from True Data: Our model has been worked out in a manner to enable a client to connect multiple TA applications to feed off the same data feed. for eg. a client using our application can work with multiple TA applications.. like Amibroker, Ninja Trader7, Multicharts, Neuro Shell trader, Metastock, Fibonacci Galactic Trader etc.. all at the same time, on the same PC and off the same data subscription.
(portion removed for clarity) We are continuously adding more and more TA clients - next we are adding Excel & were hoping to add Sierra charts also to the list. Giving the power to a client to use his data in excel, sierra charts &/ or Amibroker at the same time can indeed be powerful for some. Our software is an intermediary - yes, but it is actually Smart Cache Database system which stores historical data for all time frames on the local PC itself, reducing the subsequent history request times from the server. Data requested by any one application, once downloaded is available locally for any other application also. However, the Real time feed goes directly to the application, without any intervention from our application. This in fact is an excellent marketing idea for a software like yours. Clients already using Amibroker or Ninja Trader 7 could add your software to the existing data feed, without any additional data cost and without the requirement for them to jump to a new application, overnight. This could enable them to slowly migrate to your software if they find more value from your application alone. Documentation is work in progress and we will be able to give it to you only at a much later date. Also, I appreciate the benefits of the DTC protocol but I am not aware of any other prominent TA application using DTC. So let me know what you think. ᐧ Thanks ! True Data's statements in regards to the benefits of a local client-side server to serve multiple application are noted, they do make sense to us and we can work with what they have but it must provide a proper interface, like IQ Feed and Interactive Brokers do, which it currently does not. So they should develop a DTC Protocol server within their local server which they do not even need to document because the documentation already exists. Actually, we describe this kind of model here as proposal for an ideal model: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/helpdetails76.html#Proposal Regarding: but I am not aware of any other prominent TA application using DTC.
We are not going to change things for the better in this industry with that kind of position. Sierra Chart is a leader in this industry and a lot of effort has gone into the development of the DTC Protocol and documenting it, which you do not have to do, and to establish this as a proper and well-organized communication protocol for the industry at least when it comes to the basic communication of market data and trading information. We would hope that you would join us in this effort. The protocol does not define a single specific encoding but supports multiple encodings including Google protocol buffers and JSON which are widely used. Being it uses these two widely used encodings, among others, and being that it is nothing more than a common sense well-organized protocol for the communication of market data and trading information, it only makes sense to adopt it rather than using a proprietary interface. Who in the industry are doing anything like we are doing to establish a quality common communication protocol? Nobody is. We are going to continue to make this effort until we bring about a change. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-03-01 23:56:17
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| [2016-03-04 05:23:23] |
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True Data wanted this thread taken down. We set it to hidden but now it is public. We got a response from them and it is clear, that they are not going to adopt DTC Protocol any time soon and their statements given overwhelmingly exemplify why the DTC Protocol is so correct and needed in this industry. We are going to take what they said, and post it here and put our comments. It really is very very telling about what is completely wrong in this industry. We are not picking on them because this is an industrywide problem. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-03-04 05:27:13] |
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We also are actively looking at an alternative. We are looking at going direct to the exchange. Probably not actually a physical connection to the exchange but through an intermediary and also develop trading capability as well to the Indian exchanges.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-03-04 22:29:58] |
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Latest response from True Data: (1) Are you meaning to say, that you want us to do this connection ourselves ? and that you do not wish to integrate your protocol, in which you are better experienced ? I am not getting what you want to say as I see lot of variance from the time we started trying to integrate.
(2) I do not think we can sell any Sierra Charts applications, till there is data in it. So there is no point, as it is, in any offer, till you can get someone to feed the data into it. Prior email communication in the early discussions last year: (1) Yes, we are going to do this and we will need all your help for this. We are currently busy with the upgrade of our client end app by adding a dedicated cache engine with SQL db. Any client TA (like DTC ) can then just connect to the cache engine and get the history & the RT feed instantly. Your application would surely be one of the applications connected to the db. This helps in a way, such that any TA requesting for data (say Amibroker) makes the data available on the local machine db for the next software to request saving on crucial bandwidth and even more crucial time to download the history. So we are working on this. (2) Time line is 3 months from now. Expect it to be implemented in October end or November latest. (3) I am enclosing our logo which could be pasted on your site. Use whichever you want wherever. :-) (4) Also, I am still not aware of your Packages. I will need to know what are the different packages etc. All I want to say is that the free package should have Market Profile, for whatever time frame you decide. The interest is for Market Profile etc.. offered by SC, that's what clients are writing to me and is being discussed on the forums. If that is in .. You can really gain market share. With a One year free usage I am sure people can shift (and they are keen) from expensive solutions like Market Delta and fin-alg for Ninja to you. (5) Also, beyond the one year we could market Sierra Charts for you here in India as your resellers. People could pay in the local currency and we could transfer your portion of the proceeds to you. (6) If you have any strategies which work well with SC, those can also be marketed separately. Let me know your thoughts. Best regards, Kapil On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 8:05 AM, <sierrachart.com> wrote: Hello, Regarding this, do you have a logo image you would like us to add to this page: http://dtcprotocol.org/index.php?page=doc/doc_DTCProtocol.php#WhoUsesDTC Would be good if you could provide us that if you do intend to support DTC. Thank you, ---------------- <sierrachart.com> wrote: I suggest that we talk with your development team so there is a clear understanding as to the particular encoding used, what messages will be used and how to use Sierra Chart as a test client. This is important before you proceed. Another detail is whether you will provide a separate network socket for historical data, which we recommend. ---------------- On 2015-07-05 8:19 PM, True Data wrote: > HI, > > I received this reply from my development team. > > "technically there is no problems, but it is completely new protocol, though > the way of message interchanging looks similar to what we have already > done, so there should be no surprises, just weeks of works and testing." > > So that's positive. All I need to do now is manage the resources to make this work. ---- Let my team study this and we get back to move ahead. Best On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 12:47 PM, <sierrachart.com> wrote: Hello, Actually we will allow use of Sierra Chart service package 3, the most popular, for one year for free with your data feed if you adopt the DTC Protocol. Thank you, On 2015-07-05 7:05 PM, True Data wrote: > Hello, > > Thank you for your very prompt response. > > We too do not want a haphazard solution. Our current solution is very stable. > > Anyways, let me discuss this with my developers and get back to you. > > Also, are you aware of any other TA Software using the DTC protocol ? or is it only SC. The above communication is a portion of the communication between Sierra Chart and True Data where True Data indicates that they will work to support the DTC Protocol. There is no doubt about this. We have additional email communication but it is abundantly clear from individual messages and also collectively. There is no criticism of the amount of time that has gone by without them adopting the DTC Protocol. We ourselves are also very busy with development and we know sometimes that certain tasks can just end up getting delayed for very long periods of time. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-03-04 22:54:55
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| [2016-03-04 22:37:33] |
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A few quick comments regarding this: (1) Are you meaning to say, that you want us to do this connection ourselves ? and that you do not wish to integrate your protocol, in which you are better experienced ?
Yes we are saying that but also take note of the additional information below which explains that the DTC Protocol is not a Sierra Chart specific protocol. Why should we be the ones who do the integration work to your proprietary, complex and undocumented interface which requires additional coding to cross a process boundary? The proper working model is that neither side is integrating to the others service/product and each side uses a common standardized protocol. So you want to us to undertake all the development effort and refer business with no consideration? What have you offered us? We first made you an offer of giving you Sierra Chart free for an extended time. That offer was never accepted and we made a new offer above. We should not even have to provide an offer because your server should have a TCP/IP socket server in it anyway and it should be following a proper protocol like DTC. All of this is very basic and standard. -The DTC protocol is based on FIX. So you have no familiarity with FIX? -So you do not have experience with market data request messages which specify a symbol and a simple flag saying that the client wants to subscribe to data? -What is so hard about that? -So you do not have experience with sending streaming data in a network stream? -So you do not have experience with sending a market data snapshot? -So you do not have experience with data structures? -So you do not have experience with JSON if you decide to use that encoding? -So you do not have experience with the widely used Google protocol buffer encoding if you decide to use that encoding? -So you do not have experience with TCP/IP socket connections? All of this is very very basic, nonproprietary in any way, highly standardized, and thoroughly documented in all of the appropriate places. None of this is Sierra Chart specific in any way. All of this is proven and it works. The DTC Protocol is not a Sierra Chart protocol. It closely follows the FIX protocol where appropriate and uses completely standardized encoding methods. Read over the DTC Protocol page: https://dtcprotocol.org/ And you will understand the basis of all of our statements. ---- We hope we are making our point here. This is not meant to be critical of True Data but to be critical of what is wrong in this industry. The technical practices and attitudes must change. We have been hurt quite badly in the past by using highly proprietary improperly designed executable based methods of integration. This is exactly what True Data is offering. We make no apologies to call it for what it is which is a poor design and promoting substandard practices. There are better methods. We explain this in our Proposal: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/helpdetails76.html#Proposal Another sad part of all of this is that we had the True Data logo on the DTC Protocol page for about for more than 8 months now because of the clear statements they were going to be implementing support for the protocol, and now they are claiming they did not even understand this. Unbelievable. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-03-05 04:36:17
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| [2016-11-28 17:40:05] |
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Yes we are working on an alternative, but this requires cooperation of a broker in India which is still something we are working towards.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-04-18 04:26:30] |
| Vijigishu - Posts: 3 |
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Hi Team, Any update on adding real time data from Indian exchanges ? Thanks |
| [2017-04-18 04:33:25] |
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Yes, we are going to resume the effort next month. But we cannot say when this will be ready.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-04-18 04:53:00] |
| Vijigishu - Posts: 3 |
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Thanks for the prompt reply. I really like Volume/Market profile features provided by Sierra Chart, however not having any option to reasonable real time data connection to Indian markets limits extent to which we can use Sierra chart. Looking forward to having this option available. Thanks |
| [2017-05-31 00:31:50] |
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We are planning to resume work on integration to Indian exchanges this coming month. Sierra Chart already provides end of day data for the NSE. Refer to: http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/SierraChartHistoricalData.php Here are the symbols: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/SierraChart_RealTime_And_Historical_Symbols.php&SymbolsPage=Stocks&ID=4#nse Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-06-12 19:38:50] |
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No update at this time.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-06-25 21:30:16] |
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This is a time-consuming process. What we can say is that the programmer in India who is working on this project is going to be resuming this project this week.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-07-03 04:34:01] |
| User853212 - Posts: 4 |
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It is great to see SC will be supporting NSE exchange (both cash and futures/options?) and already working on it. Glad to see you have already added EOD as a first step :) (have not checked it as cant access the EOD data unless one has active RT account). I hope you guys have gone direct as you mentioned earlier and not through any intermediaries (in that case only clients of that particular broker can get access to SC? I understand that way you can add the trading capability through the SC platform as well, just hoping there will not be any dependencies) Wish to see SC starting this soon, any ETA's that you can share that you are working towards? Wishing you the best. Cheers! |
| [2017-07-03 17:19:27] |
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Yes, both NSE cash and futures/options and as well as the other Indian exchanges. . I hope you guys have gone direct as you mentioned earlier and not through any intermediaries Yes, this is the case.(in that case only clients of that particular broker can get access to SC? Yes this is the case but we hope to support more than one broker., any ETA's that you can share that you are working towards? Since we have dependency on a broker, we cannot give an estimated time when this will be ready.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-07-10 18:23:04] |
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Have a look through the Sierra Chart studies and indicators: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/Contents.php#StudiesIndicators Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-07-26 15:39:31] |
| roshangow - Posts: 1 |
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Just downloaded the trial, is there no realtime data provided for indian market yet... regards,roshangow |
| [2017-07-26 18:26:25] |
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No, not yet. We would not expect this to come until many months from now.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2017-08-03 16:08:02] |
| User601052 - Posts: 1 |
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I was excited to see this thread and know that you guys are working on providing support for Indian markets, then saw the last post in the thread: No, not yet. We would not expect this to come until many months from now.
Wish it was available sooner (like later this month), as I would not have to renew my subscription which is due by mid of this month. Seems like we gotta wait for SC. |
| [2017-11-09 06:14:00] |
| Vijigishu - Posts: 3 |
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Hello Team, Any update or further information you can share regarding this topic ? Thanks |
| [2017-11-09 17:39:27] |
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No update at this time. It is just simply moving slow for a couple of reasons.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-11-09 17:39:37
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