Support Board
Date/Time: Sun, 06 Jul 2025 09:13:34 +0000
Teton not providing futures spread margins
View Count: 876
| [2024-03-12 20:55:40] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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I have been trying to trade spreads through my broker Ironbeam with Teton and I can only trade Calendar spreads, the reason I am told is that Teton is not providing the margin values so the trades are being rejected. I can find the symbols for Butterflies and some condors plus Inter market spreads but cannot trade them in my live account, please advise? Example log 2024-03-11 15:54:28.046 | Teton CME Order Routing (Order reject). Info: Trade Order Error - LastTradingDateForSymbol is not known. Need to resubmit order. Text: Tag: CLTrailStop.twconfig. Internal Order ID: 8721. Service Order ID: 1946225. Symbol: HOM24-HOQ24.FUT_SPREAD.CME. Account: xxxxxxxx |
| [2024-03-12 23:24:52] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 20092 |
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This is true. Margin for spreads other than calendar spreads need to be manually set by the clearing firm for Teton order routing. That rejection message you provided above, does not relate to this though. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2024-03-13 07:11:29] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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My apologies for the wrong error message my bad! So is there a solution to this, do I need to move to another data provider? or is this something that will be resolved in the future as Teton does provide the symbol, should it not provide the other variables required to trade it? Please advise |
| [2024-03-13 15:14:58] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 20092 |
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Who is the clearing firm that you use? We will see about providing margins for more complex spreads. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-03-13 15:15:24
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| [2024-03-13 16:16:16] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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Ironbeam I believe
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| [2024-03-13 21:18:15] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 20092 |
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Yes they were asking us about this. Ok we need to think about this.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2024-03-14 14:09:32] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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Thank you, please let me know the conclusion
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| [2024-04-05 00:33:24] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 20092 |
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We apologize for the delay. The best we can do right now is if you tell us the particular category of spreads you need to trade (give us some examples), we can set up the necessary Symbol Settings for them and have Ironbeam manually set the margin for them. Although we do not know if they would agree. We will try. Maybe they could set a default high-margin which is always going to be good. Although they may not want to do this at all. The CME does not provide any API to give it a complex spread symbol, and it comes back with a margin. It requires all the components be parsed out by us, and then they have to be given to a calculator to resolve the margin. We do this a little different with calendar spreads but the concept is similar. And we just support margins for simple calendar spreads. The other possibility is to use CQG for these more complex spreads which Sierra Chart supports. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-04-05 00:34:38
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| [2024-04-08 14:47:25] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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Can you please advise, what I would need to do to use CQG and have the same service I currently have (replace like for like, exchanges, DOM etc)
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| [2024-04-08 22:23:28] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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To use CQG do I need to deactivate Denali services in control panel? or can I test CQG on another instance/installation first?
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| [2024-04-09 14:54:02] |
| User720879 - Posts: 28 |
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I have moved to CQG, I now cannot chart or trade any spreads, please advise I was guided towards this solution by the broker and your support and now have no solution? |
| [2024-04-09 15:21:37] |
| Sierra_Chart Engineering - Posts: 20092 |
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You do need to continue to use the Denali Exchange Data Feed when using CQG. Do not deactivate that. Here are the CQG set up instructions: CQG Trading Platform Service: Setup Instructions To translate the symbols in your existing Chartbooks, use this Edit menu command: Edit Menu: Edit >> Translate Symbols To Current Service You need to open a spread chart using the standard Denali symbol: Denali Exchange Data Feed: Denali Exchange Traded Spread Data with Trading Service And then set the Trade and Current Quote Symbol to the CQG spread symbol. You will have to determine what that is. : CQG Trading Platform Service: CQG Symbol Format CQG spread symbols are terrible because they do not use exchange standard symbols and they are not clear in their formatting. We wish we had a better solution for you, but we cannot offer that short-term. We really do dislike CQG but this is the best we can do. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-04-09 15:23:05
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| [2025-06-10 18:18:38] |
| User741544 - Posts: 18 |
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I have an architecture question regarding relevant data/trade services for lack of a better descriptor. I get that Denali is always there as a base and then you have a live account which may use various execution feeds. I see the above post of how to map symbols for CQG as an example. But if you’re connected to the CQG API to trade rather than on Denali like you would be to SIM why would you have to map the symbols as I assume they would be brought in via the API no? But then AMP labels their CQG API connections ‘no data’. Anyway I would assume if you want to see all your historic data, etc you’d want to be connected to the Denali feed but then your trades wouldn’t be going anywhere. I’d love to just use the Teton feed but being a spreader for margin reasons it seems like it may not be feasible and I may have to drop down to CQG unfortunately. Please advise. Thanks.
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| [2025-06-10 21:30:51] |
| John - SC Support - Posts: 40745 |
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The one reference above to where symbols need to be "mapped" is for when switching to use CQG from another service. All trading services for Futures use a different format for the symbol. Therefore, when you change trading services, you need to ensure that the symbols are updated for that service. When you change services and select OK on the Data/Trade Service Settings window, you are prompted to update the symbols. It is best practice to answer "Yes" to this question so things do not get confused. As to the Denali Exchange Data Feed and CQG, you are not thinking of this properly. Sierra Chart is setup specifically to allow you to trade with the trading service of your choice, while getting the data from us. So you would get the data from our Denali Exchange Data Feed while you are sending your trades to CQG. Doing this is all "behind the scenes", so you do not specifically select the "Denali Exchange Data Feed" in your software. As long as you are setup to get the data from our Denali Exchange Data Feed, then the data comes from us. If not, then the system looks to get the data from the trading service you are setup to use. Note that for CQG in particular, we do not support data for The CQG Group and EUREX, so in this case you have to have the Denali Exchange Data Feed setup to get that data. Teton (which is our order routing service) does support exchange traded spreads. Refer to the following: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing: Positions for Spreads/Strategies For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-06-11 16:02:53] |
| User741544 - Posts: 18 |
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Thanks John. So just so I’m clear say I had a connected CQG feed. In order to trade I’d be selecting that in the data/trade service drop down. Once there the charts and DOMs would all be showing the CQG format symbols but the data populating everything would be from the Denali feed? Or would I still be seeing the Denali format symbols and then “behind the scenes” when I execute in them they will be mapped to the appropriate CQG symbols? Also with this if I were to switch to the SC data in the drop down I’m seeing the same view but I’d be in SIM mode and not sending orders to the CQG account? |
| [2025-06-11 16:09:52] |
| John - SC Support - Posts: 40745 |
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So just so I’m clear say I had a connected CQG feed. In order to trade I’d be selecting that in the data/trade service drop down. Once there the charts and DOMs would all be showing the CQG format symbols but the data populating everything would be from the Denali feed?
This is correct. You see the CQG symbol format, but the data is coming from our Denali Exchange Data Feed. Also with this if I were to switch to the SC data in the drop down I’m seeing the same view but I’d be in SIM mode and not sending orders to the CQG account?
We are not sure what you mean by "the same view". When you change the "Current Selected Service" and you select OK to close that window, you are prompted to update the symbols in your charts, which you should do. Therefore, when you are connected to "SC Data" the symbols for the charts will be different. For example, with CQG, you would see F.US.EPM25, but with SC Data it would be ESM25-CME. For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-06-30 13:38:31] |
| User741544 - Posts: 18 |
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Thanks John just a couple more clarifications with CQG connections. I’ve read somewhere on the board here all symbols such as some spreads in the feed may not be ‘added’ in Sierra for lack of a better term, and that if so a user can request that they be added? Or is this something that can be done by the user to map any symbols somehow? I just want to be sure certain symbols important to me I know are in the CQG API feed will be there before I enable the feed with the clearer. Key symbols for me are SR3 and SR1 calendar spreads for this account. Example for 12 month U5-U6 calendar in CQG symbology is SR3S12U25. Could you confirm that is in fact feeding as if that’s there I would think they all will be. Thanks.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2025-06-30 13:39:43
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| [2025-06-30 15:16:24] |
| John - SC Support - Posts: 40745 |
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The SR1 and SR3 spreads are available through the "File >> Find Symbol" window. Refer to the following: Denali Exchange Data Feed: Denali Exchange Traded Spread Data with Trading Service For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2025-06-30 16:34:46] |
| User741544 - Posts: 18 |
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Yes I have them all with the Denali feed. But when connected to the live CQG feed question is whether they will be there as well. Unless I’m missing something where when I’m connected to CQG execution feed since it’s Denali data it automatically converts them or something?
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| [2025-06-30 18:42:57] |
| John - SC Support - Posts: 40745 |
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You will get the data from our Denali Exchange Data Feed when connected to CQG. Follow the instructions given in Post #18 to access the Spreads when connected to CQG. You may need to use a "Trade and Current Quote Symbol" for these spreads to actually trade them with CQG. We are not certain in this, but if the CQG symbol is SR3S12U25, as you noted above, then this is definitely different than what the symbol would be for the spread when connected to CQG and getting the data from our Denali Exchange Data Feed. Refer to the following: Chart Settings: Trade and Current Quote Symbol (text box) (Chart >> Chart Settings >> Symbol >> Symbol menu) For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, use the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
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