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[User Discussion] - Anything like AbleTrend / or Why AbleTrend not available with Sierra

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[2014-03-24 12:44:33]
djcurcio - Posts: 236
2 Parts:
1: Why is AbleTrend from Ablesys.com not available with Sierra Charts?
2: Is there anything similar available?
Thanks
[2014-03-24 22:45:41]
vegasfoster - Posts: 444
1. Have to ask AbleTrend.
2. There are no magical trend indicators, moving averages, lines, oscillators, etc. If you pay for that stuff, then you are still going to lose money. That said, it just looks like an ATR type trailing stop with color bars.
[2014-03-25 14:16:04]
djcurcio - Posts: 236
It seems rather odd that there are very few third party indicators, comprehensive systems and auto traders available for Sierra. And that the Sierra web site listing of third party products is mostly brokers and training providers, but not auto traders and comprehensive systems.
Given that Sierra's C# is available, I wonder why this is so, especially with all the Ninja third party products that are available.

I've been completely frustrated and spent hundreds of hours trying to implement an auto trader in the Sierra spreadsheet. I've concluded that since there is no state or switch capabilities in the spreadsheet a viable auto trader is impossible.

And with only Sierra ASCIL code snippets, developing a viable auto trader is far too complex a project for me. I do not understand why Sierra refuses to provide a working auto trader as a code base.

All of this makes me wonder about Sierra's intent.

And AbleTrend looks like a lot more than an ATR. Especially for their $5K price it better be.


[2014-03-26 02:21:07]
vegasfoster - Posts: 444
It seems rather odd that there are very few third party indicators, comprehensive systems and auto traders available for Sierra. And that the Sierra web site listing of third party products is mostly brokers and training providers, but not auto traders and comprehensive systems.
Given that Sierra's C# is available, I wonder why this is so, especially with all the Ninja third party products that are available.

And AbleTrend looks like a lot more than an ATR. Especially for their $5K price it better be.

Ninjatrader lets people use their software for free as a marketing strategy to attract beginners. Many vendors prey on people's desperation, frustration, greed, and/or laziness, traits that are more prominent in beginners. I can promise you that you will not be able to purchase an indicator, system, method, etc. that will magically make you profitable. Consider if it were that easy to be profitable, then every trader would be profitable. They are not. This is largely due to the psychology of trading, everyone is different and what works for one person is far less likely to work for another person.

Also, automation does not eliminate psychology and emotion from trading, this is a common fallacy. Every method/system has periods of substantial draw down, and when you hit those draw downs you will become emotional. Also, automation is a ridiculously hard thing to do, for the simple reason that price does the same things over and over again, but it does them differently every time. Trying to create a formula to filter price in the same manner as your brain is a nightmare, I'm not kidding. Also understand if you can't trade profitably with discretion, then you will never be able to create a profitable automated system.

You are clearly frustrated, but don't compound the problem by becoming a sucker as well. You will be far better off spending that $5,000 losing in the markets. You can trade M6E for a really long time with $5,000 and you will learn more during that time than any vendor could ever teach you. If you want immediate help with your trading, then seek out pros who aren't trying to rip people off, e.g. Al Brooks, Lance Beggs, etc. You can purchase quality books on the fundamentals of trading from these guys for a fraction of that price. It may not seem like it now, but IMO you are on right path. Believe it or not, if you start out interested in automation, then learning how difficult it is to automate is an important step in the process.

I've been completely frustrated and spent hundreds of hours trying to implement an auto trader in the Sierra spreadsheet. I've concluded that since there is no state or switch capabilities in the spreadsheet a viable auto trader is impossible.

You can create states and switches with a spreadsheet, let me know what you are trying to accomplish and I can help you. The only limitation that I know of for spreadsheets is that you can not create persistency for intrabar data; however, most systems do not require this. Also, depending on the complexity of the strategy, a coded solution may be more efficient. It takes time to learn to do these things, it won't happen in hundreds of hours. I have put thousands of hours into learning how to do these things and I am pretty good at spreadsheets, but I still only know fraction of what there is to know.

And with only Sierra ASCIL code snippets, developing a viable auto trader is far too complex a project for me. I do not understand why Sierra refuses to provide a working auto trader as a code base.

They have provided complete code examples in the ACS_Source folder in the tradingsystems.cpp file, but again, it takes time to become proficient in coding. I have also put thousands of hours into coding as well and am still really crap at it.

All of this makes me wonder about Sierra's intent.

The majority of other platform vendors want you to think automation is "Fun and Easy and Exciting", for many reasons this is a straight up lie. Automation is a monumental undertaking, it is not fun or easy or exciting in any regard. If the SC website doesn't tell you it is fun and easy and exciting and they don't have links to third party automation vendors, then IMO their intent is pretty clear.

Good luck.
[2014-03-26 21:54:58]
djcurcio - Posts: 236
VF - I appreciate your help. You're right, I'm frustrated and befuddled why Sierra will not post an auto trader working model in both the spreadsheet and ASCIL formats (that enters a position based on a simple condition with a user set profit target, and then generates a trailing stop. They could put the typical disclaimer on it. I've spent far too many hours trying to get this to work. So, given that Sierra is essentially non-responsive, and that I have yet to find a third party that has an auto trader build on Sierra, that it just can't be done in Sierra.

Regarding the Ninja and other marketing stuff, trust me, I've wasted time and money with some of these, and supposed training programs and am no longer naive. But I am going to do a trial with Ablesys.

Again, thanks for your help. I'll let you know how Ablesys works out.


[2014-03-26 23:33:36]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
why Sierra will not post an auto trader working model in both the spreadsheet and ASCIL formats (that enters a position based on a simple condition with a user set profit target, and then generates a trailing stop.
There are several examples for ACSIL which demonstrate this. Refer to:
http://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=doc/doc_ACSILTrading.html#ExampleCode

The function of one of these examples is: scsf_TradingExample1WithAdvancedAttachedOrders

And also doing this with Spreadsheet is simple. We already provide a simple example in text form and then you just need to add the Attached Orders to it. Nothing difficult about that.

You also need to understand, if we start putting together a highly sophisticated example, then that creates the problem where someone may struggle to understand it.

The examples that we provide are basic for a good reason. They need to be understandable. And there are several examples, demonstrating different concepts.

There are not a lot of Spreadsheet examples, but most people have little trouble working with Spreadsheets. Some programming concepts may not be easy to accomplish with spreadsheets, but that is beside the point, the general use of them is straightforward.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
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Date Time Of Last Edit: 2014-03-26 23:37:22

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