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Date/Time: Mon, 20 May 2024 19:50:11 +0000



[Locked] - Chart zoom out level

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[2017-03-28 02:29:36]
User19165 - Posts: 346
Hi there,

I'm getting good value with the market depth historical indicator _IF_ I apply it to a 1 tick bid-ask-trade-sync chart. The problem I'm having is I cant see enough of the recent history on the screen with a zoom out level set to zero. I personally believe that this type of chart needs to be set on the 1 tick time frame, so setting it to a higher timeframe is not an option. Just like the bookmap tool is capable of doing, we need to be able to zoom these charts out further than is currently available. Please consider changing this - all this micro structure information is easily lost without keeping the context in mind.

With kind regards,
MK
[2017-03-28 02:54:27]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
We do not know what this means:
zoom out level set to zero.

We really are not understanding what you are asking for here and please be aware of this:
Notice: Suggestions (Currently not accepting)

It is extremely unlikely we can do anything to help you. You will have to use book map.

We mean what we say, when we are not accepting suggestions. Our to do list at this point is three years long.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-03-28 02:55:35
[2017-03-28 04:19:43]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
We are under such a strain now, we have to begin to change our policies on the Support Board where these kinds of requests can no longer be responded to as well as advanced help.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
[2017-03-28 17:26:35]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
We received this by email from you:
Hi there,

I tried Sierra some years ago and recently came back to Sierra due to hearing of the following:
- your volume profile and supporting volume analysis tools had come a long ways
- you have a bookmap like tool (market depth historical)
- your SC data feed is talked about by your staff on the forums as top tier
- your desire to create tools such as reconstructed tape specifically for your SC data feed

All the above sounds good on the surface until I have started to use it. It feels like the SC business model is to offer the same tools as your competitors - on the surface, but these tools lack complete functionality to be really usable and useful to traders. The offering of the tools is only superficially useful. If you are going to offer facilities for order entry, then offer it fully rather than just basic application. If you are going to offer market depth related tools to take on Bookmap, commit to it entirely and add real value for traders. I would far far rather use complete tools than get baited into buying SC for X months and later find out that features are lacking which limit its usefulness.

When I have alerted some of these short comings to Sierra on the support board it has always been a replied abruptly and somewhat rude by Sierra staff.

I consider Sierra my business partner and as such I deplore you - please, please consider my comments within your business model. Write software for traders that does the intended job well rather than superficially well. Listen to and respect your customers because you really do need them, and they need you - it is a business partnership.

There is no need to reply to this email, I only write it to you in hopes of sparking some open minded thought without defensive backlash.

Your comments are not fair here. Sierra Chart offers very very complete and capable functionality . We are also not baiting you into anything. You can evaluate Sierra Chart for up to a month for free, you can also just pay for a single month and make sure it meets your requirements.

SC business model is to offer the same tools as your competitors - on the surface, but these tools lack complete functionality to be really usable and useful to traders.
Clearly this is not even a fair statement at all. There may be some specialized things that you require, that Sierra Chart does not have, but the statement simply in general is just not true.

If you are going to offer facilities for order entry, then offer it fully rather than just basic application.
This is also completely untrue. We have no idea what you are even referring to. The trading capabilities in Sierra Chart are very advanced.

and as such I deplore you
This is fine. We are just being honest with you. Honesty is very important. We are not going to mislead people. If this is considered "defensive backlash" then so be it. We cannot be everything to everybody. If Sierra Chart does not meet your requirements then use another program.

It is not clear what you are asking for in post #1, but it is clear enough, that it is something which fundamentally is different than how Sierra Chart works.

We have somewhat of an understanding about the method by which book map changes the display of market depth data by using its zoom in and out functionality and that is very difficult to implement within Sierra Chart. We mentioned about a year ago doing something similar but as of now, no one has ever asked us for that and it was not easy to implement so it has been dropped.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-03-28 17:36:12
[2017-03-28 17:30:50]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
If you are also even aware of the amount of hard work and superior engineering which goes into Sierra Chart, you would have tremendous respect for it. We are confident that nobody even comes close to the quality of engineering that we offer. While sometimes when we make changes or additions, there are some issues, we do get those corrected quickly.


It might also have been you who asked for the ability to do different Volume filtering with some of the volume studies within the same chart. This was not even technically possible and would be extraordinarily difficult to implement. We were very clear, that this simply was something that was not going to come.

It is rather clear here, that you have less common and specialized needs and Sierra Chart is not able to meet those. So we recommend using another program.


Among our competitors, other than us, who else offers a high quality, fully integrated and well-maintained data feed, at a low price. Nobody does that.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-03-28 17:45:37
[2017-03-28 17:49:59]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
Furthermore, users do not understand the amount of time and effort that it takes even maintaining our existing code.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
[2017-03-29 02:24:45]
User19165 - Posts: 346
I emailed that you so we could avoid clutter in the thread and as I said you did not have to reply given your previously mentioned strained resources.

Your comments are not fair here. Sierra Chart offers very very complete and capable functionality . We are also not baiting you into anything. You can evaluate Sierra Chart for up to a month for free, you can also just pay for a single month and make sure it meets your requirements.

Your software is complex to use and lacks user friendliness people are used to with windows applications, so it takes time to learn your way of doing things. 1 month doesn't even come close to being able to explore what I need. Even just setting up chartbooks with my basic contextual views took a couple weeks. Yes, I could have paid for just 1 month at a time, but I had faith in what I was reading on the support boards.

If you are also even aware of the amount of hard work and superior engineering which goes into Sierra Chart, you would have tremendous respect for it. We are confident that nobody even comes close to the quality of engineering that we offer. While sometimes when we make changes or additions, there are some issues, we do get those corrected quickly.


It might also have been you who asked for the ability to do different Volume filtering with some of the volume studies within the same chart. This was not even technically possible and would be extraordinarily difficult to implement. We were very clear, that this simply was something that was not going to come.

I was a software engineer prior to my trading life and I know how hard the work is of coding a quality product. I'm not questioning that at all. I'm simply saying that there are many features offered that are only average when instead they could be really useful.

Since you brought up volume filtering. My previous request was specifically regarding volume filtering for cumulative delta. Every software I have ever used for cumulative delta has allowed this. This is not complex stuff, if it is, then your overall architecture design is flawed. It should be minimal effort to add an input into the indicator to allow for filtering - if it is, your design is flawed. Sspeaking from one software developer to another, it really is that simple.

Chart zoom in/out - zoom out is just seeing more data on the chart. I don't really know how to explain it any clearer. On a 1-tick chart with bid_ask_trade_sync on the DAX you will only get a couple minutes of data on entire screen when the chart is set at its maximum zoom out level. If you were doing this on a more active instrument, it would be worse. I need to see at least the last 10 or so minutes on this detailed chart so I can easily have some sort of recent context and make use of the "historical" aspect of the market depth historical study.

The DOM has basic functionality only. Lacks useful features to handle scale-in / out trading. Scale in/out trading is fairly is common trading usage guys. Many many many traders scale in/out around a core position. You need to be able to move orders around instantly and ideally reflect your theoretical average somehow and somewhere. Moving a stack of orders is too tedious currently.

The DOM and the market depth historical tool update the book sluggishly. The market depth historical tool seems to have some sort of heartbeat updating rather than immediately as the orders change. You may think to yourself, so what, its only 1 second (or whatever it is), but it matters. Its enough to measure if those orders got pulled. Bookmap will update the screen way way way more and it will update the book values in a way that feels more snappy. I don't have hard data on the DOM updates because I don't really know how I could collect such, but it definitely feels like its processing the data and displaying it to the user faster and more frequent.

The point of my email was that the few things I have brought up, are important to make great tools (not just average tools) but the forum staff reply with an arrogance that implies I am wasting time with useless requests. I absolutely do not consider my trading needs to be specialized than many. I'd say every trader using tools such as IRT, Jigsaw, Bookmap would be mentioning the same types of things and more.

Again, there is no need to reply, but I am replying to your previous reply since some of my points did not seem to come across clear to you. I know you can't make software to suit everyone's needs, but I also know that my needs are not really that specialized.
[2017-03-29 04:00:21]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
Your software is complex to use and lacks user friendliness people are used to with windows applications,
We do not think this is a fair comment and it is not even considered a negative. Considering a lot of the garbage user interfaces out there like especially what Microsoft is doing, Sierra Chart is absolutely superior. We stand by what we offer and we are extremely proud of it, and it is going to remain consistent and stable. If you are not happy, then we recommend using another program. Sierra Chart clearly is not for you with this kind of comment.Notice: Suggestions (Currently not accepting)

but I had faith in what I was reading on the support boards.
There has been nothing misleading stated here by us.

I'm simply saying that there are many features offered that are only average when instead they could be really useful.
Considering the wealth of advanced functionality Sierra Chart offers, this is hardly true.


Since you brought up volume filtering. My previous request was specifically regarding volume filtering for cumulative delta. Every software I have ever used for cumulative delta has allowed this. This is not complex stuff, if it is, then your overall architecture design is flawed. It should be minimal effort to add an input into the indicator to allow for filtering - if it is, your design is flawed. Sspeaking from one software developer to another, it really is that simple.

Sierra Chart has a very good internal architecture and is not flawed and this is not simple at all. You simply are not aware of the facts. And you can accomplish this anyway by using multiple charts and overlays.



The DOM and the market depth historical tool update the book sluggishly. The market depth historical tool seems to have some sort of heartbeat updating rather than immediately as the orders change. You may think to yourself, so what, its only 1 second (or whatever it is), but it matters. Its enough to measure if those orders got pulled. Bookmap will update the screen way way way more and it will update the book values in a way that feels more snappy. I don't have hard data on the DOM updates because I don't really know how I could collect such, but it definitely feels like its processing the data and displaying it to the user faster and more frequent.

You need to adjust the Chart Update Interval:
Chart Settings: Chart Update Interval in Milliseconds (Chart >> Chart Settings >> Display >> Chart Update Interval menu)

The DOM has basic functionality only. Lacks useful features to handle scale-in / out trading. Scale in/out trading is fairly is common trading usage guys. Many many many traders scale in/out around a core position. You need to be able to move orders around instantly and ideally reflect your theoretical average somehow and somewhere. Moving a stack of orders is too tedious currently.
All of this is currently supported except the theoretical average which we have only had a couple of requests for. Here are the references:
Attached Orders: Scaling Out
Chart Trading and the Chart DOM: Modifying and Canceling Orders on the Chart

Attached Orders can be modified together when they use the All OCO Groups setting:
Attached Orders: OCO Group (Group)

implies I am wasting time with useless requests.
Our response to this is already publicly stated here:
Notice: Suggestions (Currently not accepting)

That notice is there to prevent this kind of unnecessary communication to begin with which unnecessarily takes your time and our time.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-03-29 04:02:52
[2017-03-29 04:18:59]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
And we do acknowledge some of the trading functionality you require is not probably fully supported.

Certainly we can make some improvements in that area. That is one area we are open to at this time.


Also in regards to that Chart Update Interval, that has been documented as part of our basic getting started documentation here:
Getting Started, Opening Charts and Basic Trading

Apparently you did not even read it. This documentation page is part of our basic setup instructions. This is something that definitely should not have been missed:
Sierra Chart Setup Instructions 1
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service:
Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2017-03-29 22:41:38

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