Support Board
Date/Time: Sat, 05 Jul 2025 03:48:27 +0000
[Locked] - >255 simultaneous open charts breaks the Windows Operating System
View Count: 2630
| [2018-05-20 17:08:26] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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For starters: Look, I already got the message that you find my support requests annoying. If you do not intend to support this, please just say so and I'll make my workaround permanent. Thanks. Background: My primary SC instance normally has 5 simultaneously open CBs with many charts. Previously the total # of charts was around 220. But after adding new charts last week, my 5 primary CBs contain 111, 81, 42, 8, and 31 charts respectively, bringing the total desired number of simultaneously loaded charts to 273. Problem: Opening the last of my 5 CBs, more than half of the charts get lost/discarded without any error message being displayed. The book of 31 charts only comes up showing 12 charts, and the rest are lost. If I re-save the chartbook, they are lost completely and I have to restore the .CHT from backup. HOWEVER, if I load this CB standalone, it loads fine. The problem only occurs when I load the final CB after first loading the other 4 large CBs. Observation: After SC loses most of the last CB, the total number of charts actually loaded is 254. Conspicuously close to 255/256 limit of an 8-bit integer. Not specific to any one .CHT: If I load the CBs in a different order, I get similar results but it is always the last CB being loaded where the charts are lost. Based on this I conclude there is nothing wrong with the .CHT files themselves. The problem seems to be that SC breaks in some way when loading a .CHT that brings the TOTAL number of loaded charts across all CBs past some threshold. It may be coincidence, but the threshold appears to be at or near 255 total charts loaded. System Configuration: i9-7940X 14-core CPU with 128GB RAM, Win10 1803 (latest), everything up to date. The problem is not lack of system resources. SC Version: This problem first arose in the prior version. I upgraded to latest version in case that was part of the problem, but the symptoms are identical on latest version. Why do I have so many charts? Most of the charts I actually look at contain numerous Overlay(single line) studies. The only way I know in SC to show 15 different price series on the same chart is to have 15 different charts for all the source series, and reference them with overlay studies. Most of the charts in the big CBs are used to supply data series to other charts thru the Overlay study. To work around this, I'm breaking from my desired configuration and using two instances to load these 5 large CBs rather than just 1. This is less desirable because I have lots of monitors and from a single instance each time I change active CB, it automatically changes the detached charts displayed on a half-dozen different monitors. Would be nice to find a way to keep growing past 300 loaded charts in a single SC instance. Thanks, Erik |
| [2018-05-20 19:13:15] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Correction: I was mistaken when I said that the problem could be worked around by opening some of the CBs in a different instance of SC. After more careful testing, I now see this breaks in exactly the same way, probably because the 2nd instance relies on the 1st.
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| [2018-05-20 19:30:20] |
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Look, I already got the message that you find my support requests annoying. If you do not intend to support this, please just say so and I'll make my workaround permanent. Thanks. Yes, and in this case, it is because this is a Windows issue.You say this is a problem from a recent version. This is only coincidental. Correction: I was mistaken when I said that the problem could be worked around by opening some of the CBs in a different instance of SC. After more careful testing, I now see this breaks in exactly the same way, probably because the 2nd instance relies on the 1st. This is absolute 1000% confirmation that this is a Windows issue. It is point-blank overwhelming confirmation. And we know that anyway. It is incredibly obvious because we are very experienced with this.probably because the 2nd instance relies on the 1st. No, this is not the case when it comes to windows of any type. Such ridiculous kind of engineering like this does not exist at all in Sierra Chart.The solution to the problem is to enable this option: General Settings Window: Destroy Chart Windows when Hidden (Global Settings >> General Settings >> GUI >> Application GUI) Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2018-05-20 19:30:55
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| [2018-05-20 19:51:50] |
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Opening the last of my 5 CBs, more than half of the charts get lost/discarded without any error message being displayed. This error message should be in the Message Log: "c_Chart::CreateDetachableWindow: Error creating the MDI child window." If I re-save the chartbook, they are lost completely and I have to restore the .CHT from backup.
Yes this does make sense. The problem seems to be that SC breaks in some way when loading a .CHT that brings the TOTAL number of loaded charts across all CBs past some threshold. It may be coincidence, but the threshold appears to be at or near 255 total charts loaded. This is a Windows limitation. Not with Sierra Chart. The problem is not lack of system resources. Certainly operating system resources. Quite ridiculous Microsoft cannot handle this. The only way I know in SC to show 15 different price series on the same chart is to have 15 different charts for all the source series, and reference them with overlay studies. Most of the charts in the big CBs are used to supply data series to other charts thru the Overlay study. This is no longer needed now with the new Add Additional Symbol study:https://www.sierrachart.com//index.php?page=doc/StudiesReference.php&ID=400&Name=Add_Additional_Symbol We are fairly sure we did mention that study to you previously. So not sure why you are not using it. So 2 solutions have been presented to you. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2018-05-20 19:52:25
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| [2018-05-20 20:18:13] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Thank you VERY much for the prompt reply. It was extremely helpful. Look, I don't know how we got to the point where you guys are so annoyed by me. I'm really not a bad guy and honestly I don't understand what's caused this animosity. In any case, thanks for providing the information I needed even if you found the question annoying for reasons I don't understand. Yes, you have mentioned Add Additional Symbol previously. It was in a different context and until now I didn't know that Windows limitations would cause everything to break if I had too many chart windows. I will look into re-designing my charts so that they use AdditionalSymbol rather than Overlay studies. We agree it's utterly ridiculous for Windows to not handle creating as many windows as we want. 128GB system, come on... THANK YOU again for the very prompt reply. I look forward to the day my communications no longer annoy you! :) :) :) Erik |
| [2018-05-20 21:56:47] |
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Look, I don't know how we got to the point where you guys are so annoyed by me. I'm really not a bad guy and honestly I don't understand what's caused this animosity. It is nothing to take personally. We are very detail oriented as we have to be, and when there are a lot of very long and lengthy posts with too many details, it just simply takes a lot of our time and takes away time from development.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2018-05-20 21:57:14
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| [2018-05-21 15:02:29] |
| gomifromparis - Posts: 244 |
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Maybe you can check with GDIView if you don't have a process exhausting the GDI resources https://www.nirsoft.net/utils/gdi_handles.html |
| [2018-05-21 15:07:06] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Thanks, I'll try that.
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| [2018-05-21 16:18:38] |
| user8888 - Posts: 159 |
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Take a look at this page as well: https://blogs.technet.microsoft.com/markrussinovich/2010/02/24/pushing-the-limits-of-windows-user-and-gdi-objects-part-1/ It's outdated but still might be interesting, to clarify things. There is a utility there 'TestLimits64.exe' that might be useful for you. However I already tried several things, inspired by that page, 1 year ago or so, like increasing the size of the Desktop Heap and the memory available for the User and GDI objects, but with very little improvement. If I remember correctly, you need to alter manually the registry, but, even doing that I was able to draw only 3/4 more charts. may be I missed some additional steps. If you find a solution to this, would be great if you could share it. If you are one of those persons that have a paid license for your Windows OS, I'd would go straight to ask them about this. It's possible that is not that 'they don't know how to overcome this', but instead, a limitation on purpose for some reason. you know, like those cars that have their speed limited electronically by the maker. After all, it mustn't be that common for people to run into this kind of limit. Cheers. |
| [2018-05-21 16:24:21] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Thanks so much; I'll definitely try this. Can't risk breaking the system during trading hours, so it'll have to wait for next weekend. This is "so Microsoft". The notion that one needs a pagefile on a 128 or 256GB physical memory system just blows my mind. It's just so like them to decide THEY "know" how many window handles any user "could ever reasonably need", so they put a limit on it that serves nobody's interest. Thanks again! Erik |
| [2018-05-21 16:40:45] |
| gomifromparis - Posts: 244 |
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Let's not forget GDI was designed in the Win95 days :-) Also, if you disabled the pagefile, I would suggest re-enabling it (even a small 500 MB-1 GB one) and check if it makes any difference. |
| [2018-05-21 16:44:38] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Thanks, but no, I haven't disabled the pagefile. What I meant is it's shocking that Windows can't operate well without one, even on systems with hundreds of GB of memory. I already knew that crazy as it may be, Windows just doesn't work properly without a pagefile.
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| [2018-05-23 17:42:00] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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SC Engineering: I am unable to reproduce the functionality of Overlay(single line) using the new AddAdditionalSymbol study due to an implementation limitation I'm guessing you are unaware of. I'll strive to be as concise as possible describing the issue. When using Overlay(single line) to overlay a price series from one DAILY chart to another DAILY chart, what you get is a line-on-close plot of closing prices PLUS you see the LAST price displayed at the right edge of the chart. It moves up and down with the market during the course of the intraday session, just like the price on a DAILY chart moves up and down during the session. Now try to recreate this using AddAdditionalSymbol. I am able to recreate the line-on-close plot through PRIOR CLOSING PRICES, but I am UNABLE to reproduce the behavior of the LAST price being displayed at the right edge of the chart and moving up and down during the intraday session. I am using LINE ON CLOSE as the Graph Draw Type and I'm displaying the LAST (SG4) series on the chart. I get the line-on-close thru prior CLOSING prices, but the LAST in the current session is not displayed. I experimented with different choices from Draw Graph Type but was unable to reproduce what Overlay(single line) achieves. Note: Switching to an INTRADAY chart is not an option for me because CQG limits intraday data on exchange-traded spreads to 30 days and I need more than that on the chart. Bottom line, is there a way to use AddAdditionalSymbol and have the LAST price update on the right edge of the chart through the course of the session the way it does when Overlay(single line) is used? Thanks! Erik Date Time Of Last Edit: 2018-05-23 17:42:36
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| [2018-05-23 18:52:04] |
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We will have to test this.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2018-05-23 20:08:13] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Thanks. If you need a .CHT to reproduce the issue or anything just let me know. Thanks again!
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| [2018-05-27 07:11:28] |
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With the Add Additional Symbol study, Historical Daily chart data now updates in real time at the last bar. This is out in version 1752. There was a lot of work to support this. It was something that was not originally done because of the work involved but it is now done. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2018-05-27 07:11:37
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| [2018-05-27 15:06:22] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Thank you VERY much for doing the extra work to support this. I'll upgrade today and try it out! Thanks! Erik |
| [2018-05-27 20:32:27] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Is the AddAdditionalSymbol study intended to work with both historical and intraday charts? I spent the day converting my Overlay-based charts to use AddAdditionalSymbol instead of Overlay(single line) to eliminate dependent charts. This worked on historical charts, but does not seem to work on Intraday charts after upgrading to 1752. I thought I tested AddAdditionalSymbol on Intraday charts in the prior version and it worked, but I could be mistaken. In any case, my current experience with 1752 is that it works with Historical charts only. Is this intentional? Thanks! Erik |
| [2018-05-28 00:37:48] |
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It does work with Intraday charts. We do not know what is meant by "but does not seem to work on Intraday charts ".
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2018-05-28 00:56:27] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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If I try and create a new intraday chart with AddAdditionalSymbol studies, I the lines are not drawn and the data line at the top of the region where they should be drawn shows zeroes for all values. Similarly, if I dupicate a WORKING daily chart that has several AdditionalSymbol studies (which are drawn correctly), then change it to Intraday and 60-minute intervals, the AdditionalSymbol studies are not drawn on the chart and the data line displays zeroes even though the correct (intraday) values are shown on the daily version of the chart. The attached .CHT reproduces this. The charts named "CL Monthly Spreads" and "CL Monthly Spreads 60m" are identical, except that the former is daily and the latter is 60min Intraday. The studies are not drawn on the intraday version. In case it helps, I'm pretty sure this worked on the intraday version in the prior SC release. Thanks, Erik |
 CL Spreads.Cht - Attached On 2018-05-28 00:55:16 UTC - Size: 882.68 KB - 339 views |
| [2018-05-28 01:39:07] |
| ErikT - Posts: 121 |
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Also, I now see that the last value shown on the AddAdditionalSymbol studies is not up to date. When I look at values on the versions of these charts that are based on Overlay(single line) studies, they show the latest trade values for the symbols involved, matching the single-series charts and other sources. But the AddAdditionalSymbol studies are not showing the latest values for LAST trade. Help...About says 1752, 64-bit. If you want me to make a .CHT to reproduce this showing overlay(single bar) and AdditionalSymbol for the same symbol in a different region on the same chart, let me know. Thanks, Erik |
| [2018-05-28 03:59:02] |
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In response to post #21, this is resolved in 1753. This was the result of the work done to support updating of historical daily data with the Add Additional Symbol study. We also saw a problem where in some cases historical daily data would not be loaded in all. This is fixed. Historical daily chart data updating for the last bar, is working properly. So we see no problem with that. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
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