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Date/Time: Mon, 17 Jun 2024 07:13:45 +0000

[User Discussion] - Supply and Demand Indicator

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[2024-04-22 07:46:05]
binaryduke - Posts: 365

I reached out to you by DM in response to you saying that "This is precisely the missing piece in my algo journey to implement once I learn orderflow techniques.". I disclosed my background as an order flow developer, trader, educator and publisher of commercial tools.

You're now saying that any posting by me or my users (some of whom are now involved in community management) is deceptive?


People ask for help. People with expertise provide some knowledge. Knowledge and expertise can be commercialised.

I explicitly never spam this board with recommendations for my group or products. I do reach out to people that I think would benefit from them based upon the questions/nature of the questions that they ask.

The entire trading add-on industry is full of charlatans and snake oil vendors that do not know what they are talking about; are happy to take high one-time fees from people for mysterious obfuscated stuff using tempting branding ("follow the institutional order blocks"; "HFT zones"; etc).

My ethos is education FROM FIRST PRINCIPLES first; tools second. I urge all of my prospective clients to learn how to read order flow from raw data using standard features built into Sierra Chart (and other platforms). I help and educate people with that. For the outrageous price of $25 for 60+ online lessons. Wow. Vested interest huh. I must be making a fortune. Then, they are in a position to use commercial tools (like mine, or standard features of Sierra Chart, or other vendors' stuff that is not obfuscated nonsense) to increase their productivity when trading.

99% of people don't follow that path. They are lazy/don't want to put in the work/want some magic indicator/etc. Meh.

A large number of retail trader victims also think that any vendor promoting/sharing visibility of their products must be deceptive/snake oil/etc. The industry has created this situation. Fine. Go onto futures.io or whatever it's called and use free stuff created by the same pool of retail traders finding their own way in this industry. Might work, might not. Perhaps if enough people in that echo chamber do the same thing, their volume will be sufficient to move the market in the direction they favour.

However... to imply that my actions (or those of j4ytr4der) are deceptive is simply out of order. You implied that being able to add qualification of supply and demand areas was a missing piece that's hard to learn/implement within your algorithmic trading journey. Someone (me) reached out transparently to tell you about resources that can help you on that journey. You know what... good information costs money to create and has a value. It is not a crime to ask for money in exchange. If you don't want to exchange money for value, that's fine. If you want to be a guardian angel protecting others from evil vendors that are only out to take money from poor naive retail traders, that's fine too. If you want to remain in the echo chamber of retail traders that think all vendors are out to hurt the poor retail trader so you're only interested in open source/community-published stuff, fine. But don't accuse transparent, knowledgable people of deceptive practices, especially when you have no idea about where they are coming from or the work they do.
[2024-04-22 08:05:54]
binaryduke - Posts: 365
@User 417081 from post 15

In regards to reputable sources, I’m talking about those that have been evaluated and posted in the reputable custom studies tab here on Sierra chart. I haven’t found any of those labeled to be reliable by Sierra chart that offer S/D zones.

The user-contributed custom studies are exactly that. User-contributed. Whether or not there's been any deep analysis by Sierra Chart as to their reputability is something for Sierra Chart to answer. Sierra Chart has been around for almost 20 years and in that time, various users have provided some studies that are now bundled in the software distribution.

There are also two parts to "reputable".

- is this code reputable? Does it do what it purports to do or is it malware that does something nasty to your computer? The source code provision helps with this (which is also a policy in place at futures.io with their indicator sharing - source code only). But... it should be no surprise to then consider that anything that has any degree of proprietary IP or commercial value is ever going to be shared in this way.

- is the indicator/tool actually any use? TA is outdated and quite irrelevant these days (although beloved by retail traders). Just because an indicator is "reputable" by virtue of being bundled within a software distribution does not mean it is of any use to the task of extracting money from the markets.

In trading, price moves because of imbalances in supply and demand. Same as in real life. The amount of stuff bought or sold vs what's on offer to be bought or sold has an effect on price. Learn to read this and you have a chance of being successful as a trader. Exactly the same thing applies to tools for trading. If there is demand for some magic tool or information that can assist in trading success, there is a price. If there's no demand, it doesn't sell. If it has no value, there's no demand.

Expectations that knowledge and tools that provide value should be free or have source code disclosed is not realistic. It's a subversion of the rules of supply & demand. Exactly the same rules that need to be interpreted to have a chance at being successful as a trader.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-04-22 08:06:58
[2024-04-23 09:23:43]
Marmany - Posts: 306
Hello Binaryduke,
I have been through your published information and listened to a few of the freebie webinars, very interesting and some excellent ideas on order flow. Happy coding my own trading algorithm in ACSIL, some of your ideas are successfully incorporated into my programme. I have not found it necssary to subscribe to your training courses or trading programmes, but wish to thank you for your contributions to the trading community.
Why not publish the profitability factor for your live trades on a monthly basis?
To do so would truly differentiate you from the charlatans and snake oil guys.
[2024-04-23 11:02:53]
binaryduke - Posts: 365
Thank you Marmany.

Even when an educator publishes their live trading results, people are sceptical. "It's in SIM" "You're running multiple accounts and trading in opposite directions" "These are false statements/they've been photoshopped/I want an audited statement from your broker".

I trade live twice a week at my educational group. People see me trade live.

I also have some automated systems in development/building track record which may be available for rental in the future once they have sufficient track record.

Track record is irrelevant to tools and education. The human is the risk factor. I can educate someone on everything. They can still ignore things/go on tilt (as can I... all of us can).

IIRC 2-3 years ago I started a public journal on a Facebook group for my educational community. After a week I was being slated for the profitability being unrealistic and therefore fake.

So... why bother.
[2024-04-23 11:03:58]
binaryduke - Posts: 365
Here's a live trading example that's publicly available:

and there are many more on the associated YouTube channel.
[2024-04-23 12:36:04]
Marmany - Posts: 306
The youtube example is based on discretionary trades. Learnt the hard way that this does not suit my personality.
Competitive nature activates a powerful, uncontrolable, instinct to "fight the market" when it turns against my position, ultimately ends in a disaster.
Only solution was to let the algo have complete control.
[2024-04-23 13:28:01]
j4ytr4der_ - Posts: 932
Right there with you Marmany, except that I find that automatable ideas often come from discretionary trading, so I continue to hone that skill in order to feed my automation ideas.

Nobody (well, barely anyone antyway lol) wants to sit and watch a live session of an automated system doing its thing. There's no exposition, no explanation of what was seen, why, etc. This is the value of what BinaryDuke does on his live sessions - hearing his stream of consciousness. Even if the eventual plan is to automate, I've found this invaluable over the years. If one is going to automate trades against the order flow, the first step imo, is truly understanding the order flow at a deep level.
[2024-04-23 23:20:41]
User417081 - Posts: 16
@binaryduke @j4ytr4der

Thank you guys for explaining everything. I will be checking out your tools in a few weeks when I’m done with school. I appreciate the time you put into your explanations.

Sorry if I came off passive aggressive in the beginning, i just felt as I was being painted as an entitled individual and that wasn’t the purpose for the post. I offered to pay and just know that it’s becoming a more popular indicator as time moves on. As we all know adaptability is one of the most important things in business, just was trying to help more or less.

Thanks again guys, looking forward to using the products in the near future. God Bless
[2024-04-23 23:23:00]
j4ytr4der_ - Posts: 932
For my part, you're entirely welcome and I hope something useful/helpful to you comes as a result of this thread. =)
[2024-04-24 07:22:27]
binaryduke - Posts: 365
Ditto! :)
[2024-04-26 07:24:05]
User61168 - Posts: 367

I disclosed my background as an order flow developer, trader, educator and publisher of commercial tools.
Agree, you were upfront about your background in your DM.

You're now saying that any posting by me or my users (some of whom are now involved in community management) is deceptive?
I never said this at all. All I am saying is the allowance by Sierra Chart (owners of this site) to use (and repeatedly allow changes to user profile name on this support side) any God damn name one chooses creates a potential of deceptive practice. That's all I am alluding to. My post was inclined to raise awareness and question this policy and that's the end of it. Some do use their business name (like brad and tom/sawtooth) and some dont(like the two of you and user "Trader & Sierra++ developer".

As I said in the very first sentence
I have no intention of offending anyone but feel it needs to be mentioned.

Date Time Of Last Edit: 2024-04-26 07:25:52
[2024-04-26 07:43:44]
binaryduke - Posts: 365
User61168 - understood. I was a user long before I was a developer and wouldn't want to change my board name as it might appear to be deceptive :) Also, NTUser666 might be taken too :rofl:

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