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Convenience vs mkt segment gtwy

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[2021-07-13 01:00:59] #1 [Go To First Post]
User220914 - Posts: 239
Hello I Thought I would give some clarification on the gateways at the CME since there has been misinformation in the latency post for your cme direct routing diary. 1. The convenience gateway is like when you buy a ticket for a music concert and get a convenience fee! The convenience gateway is a latency bottle neck! Why? Because the convenience gateways get all orders from all markets going into it from all over the world at the same time! The market segment gateways only deal with orders for the specific market so as or nq or corn. Even more importantly the orders at the convenience gateway are all Batched!!! The exchange holds them back until enough orders hit and they send n sort them to the mkt segment gateways. What does this mean? It means your order is NOT getting fifo Priority until after it hits the market segment gateway!! So my order that hits the convenience gateway before yours could randomly get fifo priority at the mkt segment gateway eventhough you were 1st! This is why tt and cqg allow direct access to the mkt segment gateways! Priority is way more important than latency to the exchange. The convenience gateway is a built in speed bump for professional users of the market segment gateways!! I mean common sense tells you the mkt segment gateways are much better due to the bypass of the convenience gateway! Perhaps you should divulge the source who told you the convenience gateway was better than mkt segment and question why on earth anyone would say that to begin with about mkt gateways? Anyway understand that there is no timestamps on the trade engine until those orders go from convenience get filtered then sent to mkt segment gateways of the individual mkts. I am including links to the cme website for your records. Maybe you could allow or set up say es mini sp500 for mkt segment in the future? Narrow it down to a couple mkts if possible. I am looking forward to using your mkt access but latency as far as actual time stamps to the trade engine will be the same as everyone else. I also feel that Sierra Chart should divulge what pipe or what connection we are using with sierra order routing. I.e. tradeovate is cqg.. Rhithmic is ohme..or omni Amp I think is TT. Very few direct access are actually direct i.e. you own the actual pipe and full bandwidth connection. That runs roughly 130k per year minimum. This is why so many companies who own actual direct access sell off the bandwidth to other brokers and fcms. This is also why tt cqg gain doms all slow down at certain levels due to bandwidth throttling and convenience gateways. Again really looking forward to your service and I posted this from a knowledge stand point. Realistically unless a micro time frame scalper or synthetic mkt maker then the convenience gateway should suffice. However true reduced latency for fifo priority resides directly to the mkt segment gateways.

[2021-07-13 01:05:32] #2 [Go To First Post]
User220914 - Posts: 239
Link to cme website about gateways https://www.cmegroup.com/confluence/plugins/servlet/mobile?contentId=81362961#content/view/81362961

[2021-07-13 08:30:31] #3 [Go To First Post]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
The Market Segment Gateway offers absolutely no benefit over the Convenience Gateway for anyone submitting orders from the Internet. The order routing is going to be very low latency, we expect below 300-400 µs (microseconds) and this is an overestimate and includes all risk management checks, before it gets to the exchange order matching processor. If you are submitting limit orders, you will have no advantage at all with the market segment gateway and with market orders you would only have an advantage if you are colocated with the exchange. Already our Sierra Chart order routing, is known to be very fast. We have heard, it is the fastest. We have not done comparisons though but we are quite sure it is faster, than CQG and others. It is best just wait to do testing and you will see the performance is very good. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, change to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-09-12 01:25:31

[2021-07-23 14:42:32] #4 [Go To First Post]
User220914 - Posts: 239
While I appreciate what you said it is incorrect. if i am competing with other internet users and if you understand what "BATCH" sending means and RANDOMIZATION of ALL ORDERS in the convenience gateway then you would never have really stated what you did. ALL ORDERS IN THE CONVENIENCE GATEWAY are batched and randomized and DO NOT GET FIFO first in first out priority on the trade engine until they get to the MARKET SEGMENT GATEWAY! if this is not true then 1. the legal CME website is just plain lying and 2. all the professionals trading at prop firms via mouse click must have a reason for being on the MARKET SEGMENT GATEWAY. I will still use your service for execution once it is set up and running but make no mitake about it there is a FIFO time stamp to the NANO SECOND as far as the que and if my competition is other mouse clickers looking at the same charts then priority and speed is all that i have as an advantage. it is hilarious to me that so many people in the industry say well if you are mouse click trader then it doesnt matter. um.. whateve then why even try and have low latency to begin with? Maybe one day you will offer the market segment gateways in say the e mini or the nasdaq. that would be great. Many other services offer direct to the mkt segment gateway and MOST PROFESSINAL MOUSE CLICKING TRADERS USE the mkt segment gatteway to get that FIFO priority instead of a random batch send then time stamp. that is the main issue. I can buy before you and you might just get a better fill than me since it is randomly batched! now there are reasons for the hft that it is randomly batched but most don't understand the true arbs that are going on from the convenience to market segment gateway. obviously you guys seem to be set on the convenience gateway which is the only place to start so maybe down the road it could happen. I am still looking forward to using your execution services for a lot of reasons and mainly because you have always put out excellent products at very good prices and i applaud all of you for that. thanks

[2021-09-12 02:11:16] #5 [Go To First Post]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
The practical reality is this is 100% meaningless: if you understand what "BATCH" sending means and RANDOMIZATION of ALL ORDERS in the convenience gateway then you would never have really stated what you did. The basic reason is that you are not considering, data feed delays and data feed transmission times, and chart processing time, reaction time, other order processing times, and order transmission times, all before the order gets to the market segment gateway. With Sierra Chart, the order processing and transmission time, is very minimal compared to everything else. So your order will get to the market segment gateway ahead of most if not all other platforms when using the direct CME routing. Prove us wrong. Do not look at all of the information you are. Work with actual fact. We are looking at times, in the area of 250 to 300 µs for a market order to be delivered to the CME and get filled with Sierra Chart direct CME routing. That is fast. And we can take that even lower. We can probably cut 100 µs off of that further. More information: Now Released: Upcoming CME Direct Routing \| Post: 277012 Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, change to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2021-09-12 02:17:08

[2022-02-03 18:44:19] #6 [Go To First Post]
User220914 - Posts: 239
You asked me to prove it to you so i will prove it n 2 ways. https://www.cmegroup.com/confluence/display/EPICSANDBOX/iLink+Architecture#iLinkArchitecture-ConvenienceGateway 1. Read this page from the CME and understand clearly that there is NO "FIFO" (timestamp) priority until the orders from the Convenience gateway are batched and sent to the Market segment gateway. There are 17 market segment gateways and 1 main convenience gateway. THE CONVENIENCE GATEWAY ROUTES ALL GLOBAL ORDERS FOR ALL CME MARKETS OPTIONS AND FUTURES to the CORRECT MARKET SEGMENT or dedicated gateway that then TIME STAMPS orders and interacts with the trade engine/ match engine. Once the orders from the CONVENIENCE gateway hit the correct market segment gateway they then have an actual time stamp. This alone proves that no matter what the transmission time from new york or timbuktoo that if i am in the exact same place lets say in CHICAGO with a direct feed to your server then if your server routes my 1 lot ES (sp500) futures order to 1. the conveniece gateway and at the exact same time routes another order a 1 lot to the market segment gateway that the market segment gateway actually "SKIPS" the step of being stuck and filtered while resting on the convenience gateway. this is called processing and it may be fast but it is still slower than going DIRECTLY to the Market segment gateway! Does this mean that your direct order routing is not amazingly fast or terrific.. no not at all I am sure that your direct routing is above and better than industry standard. However to actually go to the mat over which one is faster the convenience gateway vs the market segment gateway then the real answer or fact check is that the Market segment gateways are faster by a massive precentage once you drill down into! How would this be a factor to a mouse click trader not much but if i have order being placed from a co located server that is sending orders to the cme before prices can even be seen on my computer screen then I would want them to be sent to the fastest gateway possible with a time stamp to prove my priority since I am spending a lot of money to be co located and not GROUPED into the regualr orders at the convenince gateway. An analoogy would be regular highway lanes on a 6 lane highway is the convenience gateway we all get to use them versus the HOV lane or EXPRESS lane where we pay for the priviledge of directly routing to our destination by passing lots of traffic and the bottlenecks created by those orders. 2. You can call the CME global command center and speak with the engineers which obviously you have since you go tyor direct routing set up and running and they will tell you yes the market segment gateways are faster but does it actually make much of a difference for a mouse click trader? that is the question. If i am marekt making from your server then it might if im in a trade for less than a second. Lastly I would also say that you need to measaure the bandwidth allowed by the cme for the convenience gateway versus the market segment gateways and this is exactly when you would see that LARGEST % change and the MOST ADVANTAGEOUS reason for going direct to the market segment gateway in the 1st place when you need your orders to be filled at the most volatiel and important time with possibly little liquidity you then want to get time stamped and on that MARKET SEGMENT gateway as fast as possible. Common sense tells you that 1000 messages is much easier to filter/parse and handle than 1 million when the mkt moves rapidly due to events or news or reports. I will end this technical speed debate with the FACT that Sierra Chart is an amazingly fast and excellent product that i always recommend and I am excitd to use the direct order routing along with denali in the very near future and i think it humble and fantastic that you are doing for an incredibly low cost to your customers. I also see that you are showing us and telling us that hey guys theses other comapneis are doing the same thing but slower and charging you a ridiculous amount of money ROUNDTRIP to get your ordes to the exchange. THANK YOU SIERRA CHART Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-02-03 18:44:39

[2022-02-03 19:00:00] #7 [Go To First Post]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 104368
Just so you know, it is not up to us, whether the convenience or market segment gateway is used. This is controlled by the clearing firms. And in almost all cases they would only use the convenience gateway. Another clearing firm, says they do not even use the market segment gateway for their own order routing, And they say the market segment gateway is much less reliable than the convenience gateway based on the reported outages from the CME. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, change to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2022-02-03 19:00:11

[2022-02-03 19:26:47] #8 [Go To First Post]
User220914 - Posts: 239
Thank you. I have absolutely ZERO REAL WORLD EXPERIENCE with the market segment gateways directly and was only going off of network architecture. I am not pushing or vying for you to offer direct to the market segment gateway. The largest bottleneck that I have found for retail trading platforms is not in the gateways or even in the order but in the RISK CHECKS. If you can find a faster smarter way to do risk checks over and over than YOU WILL have all competition beat because large traders and trading entities get to bypass RISK CHECKS. go figure right. thank you for your response and I think i speak for most of your happy users and clients.. THANK YOU!!

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