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Date/Time: Tue, 25 Feb 2020 10:11:16 +0000



[Sticky] - Stock Trading Plans ( Question for our Interactive Brokers Users)

[2020-02-05 21:48:55]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
Currently the only service that Sierra Chart supports for stock/equities trading is Interactive Brokers and it does provide broad coverage around the world.

Now that stock trading is commission free for US equities we realize it is important for us to support an alternative for trading US equities.

We are looking at all options. Including supporting the new TD Ameritrade trading API. Although if we do that we would still be offering only our own market data feed but we are also working on lowering the cost of that feed feed and/or providing more simultaneous symbols per connection.

We are just mentioning the above about the future plans but this all this takes some time to implement.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

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Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-05 21:49:37
[2020-02-10 16:55:04]
User170575 - Posts: 211 | Ending Date: 2020-03-05
Hi---sounds great---E-Trade called me back Friday--they sounded interested---they are more generous than TD giving up their API---and they do offer futures trading I think. IB may offer equities around the globe but without a decent volume count it is limited though the only solution right now for equities. I would be fine in paying a fee for a good feed but I need order access from your platform.

Sooner the better----and many thx,
Cy
[2020-02-10 18:34:27]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
Ok we will get in touch with E*TRADE. Are they commission free?
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

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[2020-02-12 21:48:04]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
A question we have for Interactive Brokers users, now that TD Ameritrade is commission free, would it make sense to be trading US stocks through Interactive Brokers when you can trade through Ameritrade for free?

Now of course Interactive Brokers has commission free trading but we understand that is not available through their standard TWS which Sierra Chart interfaces to.

So if you want to do stock trading through Sierra Chart it seems to us it would make more sense to be trading on TD Ameritrade commission free rather than using Interactive Brokers.

And this also solves the problem, where when there are server-side bracket orders being used, with multiple targets, you do not have to be concerned about the multiple commissions because we are breaking up the parent order into the number of target orders.

So if it makes more sense to be trading stocks commission free through TD Ameritrade, this gives us more incentive to be supporting TD Ameritrade.

Although at this point we pretty much have decided we are going to move forward with that with their new API. It is more a question of the timing of when we can get this done.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
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Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-12 22:04:17
[2020-02-12 22:09:20]
User390455 - Posts: 27 | Ending Date: 2021-03-11
Just a precision free commision is only for US resident who trade US stock.

And TD have ban all European+UK user (natural personal & business) and probably also ban Australia and UAE user.
Charles Schwab buy TD probably a lot of change.... And problem ...

IB is fine with all user in all the country (but IBRK Lite => free : is only for natural personne US resident who trade US stock)
IB is rock solid open of the world.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-12 22:36:01
[2020-02-13 00:33:16]
User41727 - Posts: 102 | Ending Date: 2020-02-27
A question we have for Interactive Brokers users, now that TD Ameritrade is commission free, would it make sense to be trading US stocks through Interactive Brokers when you can trade through Ameritrade for free?

Because "free" isn't really free. I'm not sure you understand the intricacies of equity order handling. Brokers like Robinhood, Alpaca, and now many others like TDA can only offer "free" trades by selling their customer's order flow to a variety of counter parties like HFTs.

Obviously, these places would not pay for this order flow if they were not able to make more money from them than they are paying the broker. And that money ultimately comes out of the customer's pockets. One way this works is that while the buyers of said order flow are bound by Reg NMS, and thus have to execute the orders at the NBBO or better (for non-odd lot orders), there can be hidden liquidity that allows them to fill the orders at a better price than the NBBO. They then fill the customer's order at the NBBO, and pocket the spread. A proper broker like IB (non Lite) will try to find that hidden liquidity, and fill your order at that price. So, the customers are not paying commissions, but they are paying by receiving worse fills than they might otherwise be able to obtain. In the end, you are probably indirectly paying more with "free" trading than you would by dealing with a transparent broker where you are the customer and not the product. Commission free trading is nothing but a scam designed to screw over retail traders who don't understand order handling.

The information about where the orders are routed can be found in the respective SEC rule 606 reports that brokers have to file. For instance, here is Robinhood's disclosure for Q4 2019: https://cdn.robinhood.com/assets/robinhood/legal/RHF%20SEC%20Rule%20606%20Report%20Disclosure%20-%20Q4%202019.pdf
[2020-02-13 03:08:13]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
In regards to post #6 we certainly know about this type of method. This is what is used in the Forex markets. But we did not know this is what TD Ameritrade is doing. If this is the case, there is no reason for us to be supporting TD Ameritrade. So that plan is on hold.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
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If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-13 03:08:20
[2020-02-13 03:28:21]
User41727 - Posts: 102 | Ending Date: 2020-02-27
Here is their 606 report: https://www.tdameritrade.com/retail-en_us/resources/pdf/AMTD2054.pdf

95% of all orders for NYSE and Nasdaq listed stocks respectively were sold to Citadel, Virtu, G1, and UBS for payment.
[2020-02-13 04:34:19]
seandunaway - Posts: 110 | Ending Date: 2021-07-10
If this is the case, there is no reason for us to be supporting TD Ameritrade. So that plan is on hold.

There is still reason to support TDA and these commission free brokers.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-13 14:23:36
[2020-02-13 09:51:48]
User390455 - Posts: 27 | Ending Date: 2021-03-11
For SierraChart Support
You can see the difference of Routing betwenn IBRK Lite (Zero Commision) and IBRK Pro (and all the report):

U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission rules require all brokerage firms to make publicly available quarterly reports describing their order routing practices.

Report 2019 Q4 : 606 Quarterly Broker-Dealer Order Routing Report
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=563
[2020-02-13 11:01:46]
User390455 - Posts: 27 | Ending Date: 2021-03-11
IBRK Lite (Zero Commision)
IBKR-LITE clients are
generally charged zero commission for NMS stock and ETF orders. IBKRLITE orders are generally routed to select over-the-counter market-makers
(“Market Makers”) for handling. IBKR’s agreements with the Market Makers
provide Interactive Brokers payment for order flow from each Market Maker
for trades executed
with that Market Maker.


IBRK Pro
IBKR maintains connections to "dark pool" ATSs ("Routeaway Dark Pools") that may execute IBKR-PRO client marketable orders in NMS stocks.
IBKR clients benefit from IBKR's access to dark pools. Dark pools provide a
source of substantial additional liquidity.



Wath I have unstderstand
Zero Commision Broker (TD, ETrade, Robinhood, Schwab) and IBRK Lite (IB Zero commision version) send order to Market Maker and have commision from Market Maker.

IBRK Pro (IB commision based) don't sell order flow to Market Maker. But use Dark Pool or direct market for find beter price for customer.
IB can probably improve with more costly interface.


Other reflexion of Zero Commision Broker :
You have Zero Commision and Real Time DataFeed for Free. All this cost money. Broker must find money.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-13 11:26:00
[2020-02-13 20:01:16]
UserAR - Posts: 14 | Ending Date: 2020-05-27
There is another advantage to IB- you get a single account in which to trade futures and stocks. This allows you to deploy all of your capital most efficiently. We are still waiting on Level 2 data feed from SC so we can ditch TWS and just use their API for executions.
[2020-02-14 11:39:09]
User618679 - Posts: 10 | Ending Date: 2021-02-07
As an IB user who occasionally trades equities, I would not consider getting a commissions free brokerage account for the reasons explained in post 6. I do not believe I would be better off and hate the marketing around it. There is value in knowing exactly what you are going to pay for executing a trade.
[2020-02-14 16:25:25]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
We are still waiting on Level 2 data feed from SC so we can ditch TWS and just use their API for executions.
We expect to finally be able to deliver this, this year. Hopefully before June.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
[2020-02-15 18:56:39]
jomanos - Posts: 15 | Ending Date: 2020-09-27
In regards to post #6 we certainly know about this type of method. This is what is used in the Forex markets. But we did not know this is what TD Ameritrade is doing. If this is the case, there is no reason for us to be supporting TD Ameritrade. So that plan is on hold.

Let's be reasonable. This would have to be the case for all services that offer zero commissions. (If IB isn't doing it now, they will most likely sometime in the future.)

Retail traders who trade equities are probably doing options trades of some sort, or swing trading actual shares. Maybe a small percentage are scalping stock.

So, please go forward with supporting the TD Ameritrade API.
[2020-02-15 19:46:36]
User390455 - Posts: 27 | Ending Date: 2021-03-11
Post #15

Yes, TD can be a option for Natural Person US Resident for have :
> Free Real Time DataFeed
> A other stock broker for Sierra Chart
> A less complex broker than IB


(If IB isn't doing it now, they will most likely sometime in the future.)
IB do also this. IB have 2 versions (Post #10 and #11)
> IBRK Lite (Zero Commision) with same system than TD (sell order to Market Maker)
> IBRK Pro with dark pools and Direct Acess Order.

You have the choise. But IBRK Lite is only for US Resident Natural person and the IB API is not Included (you can't plug IBRK Lite with Sierra Chart).
[2020-02-16 05:30:50]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
and the IB API is not Included (you can't plug IBRK Lite with Sierra Chart).
According to another thread on this board, Interactive Brokers will be making the API available with Interactive Brokers Light.

And even though we to not like interactive Brokers and they are a major problem at times, if they also offer commission free trading why not just use them being the API support is supposedly coming.

And then we can look at how to improve the order routing to/from Interactive Brokers.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-17 11:39:34
[2020-02-16 08:51:01]
User390455 - Posts: 27 | Ending Date: 2021-03-11
According to another thread on this board, Interactive Brokers will be making the API available with Interactive Brokers Light.
It possible than can change for now is in Strategy from IB (Exclude IB API).


For the US Resident Naturel person who can chose IBRK Lite or IBRK Pro. IB give 3 avantages chose IBRK Pro

IBRK Pro (3 avantages present by IB)
> IB SmartRouting (Dark Poll or Direct Access Order) [No sell to Market Maker]
> IB WebTrader
> IB API

IBRK Lite you can only use (IB Mobile, TWS [without IB API], Client Portal [Cheap version of WebTrader])

(Tech : https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=13868 [IBRK Pro Only => WebTrader & IB API] / Routing : https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=1685)

IBRK Lite is clearly, a defensive mouvement. If your are active trader you are fastly move on an IBRK Pro account.
And without IB SmartRouting your real price of an order is random. For small orders, may be better than the fixed comision or not.


IB Limitation
https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=45196

OnClose or OnOpen US listed stock orders are free for IBKR Lite clients so long as the order does not exceed 10% of an account's monthly US stock trading volume, otherwise your account will be charged USD 0.005 per share.

IBKR reserves the right to reject any IBKR Lite order or series of orders if IBKR determines the order(s) appear to show non-retail trading behavior. At the time an order is rejected, the client will be automatically presented the option to resubmit the rejected order on a Fixed commission basis.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-16 15:32:57
[2020-02-16 18:24:31]
User312841 - Posts: 22 | Ending Date: 2020-08-05
FWIW. My tradeable 401k is in TDA and cannot be converted to IB until I retire. Not supporting TDA has always been a "HUGE" disappointment!

SC lists about 40 Data Trade Services, and is it really only IB that is supported? The only other service I need, and many others 401k users is TDA (I believe TDA is a big market). I vote to move forward integrating the new API, it looks pretty clean. If you need a beta tester I volunteer.

Note: I moved from Ninja to SC years ago, very happy and impressed with SC.
[2020-02-16 19:06:04]
jomanos - Posts: 15 | Ending Date: 2020-09-27
FWIW. My tradeable 401k is in TDA and cannot be converted to IB until I retire. Not supporting TDA has always been a "HUGE" disappointment!

SC lists about 40 Data Trade Services, and is it really only IB that is supported? The only other service I need, and many others 401k users is TDA (I believe TDA is a big market).

Exactly. I am in the same situation. For those of us with our 401ks tied to TDA, we really have no choice.
[2020-02-17 13:16:40]
User390455 - Posts: 27 | Ending Date: 2021-03-11
I have ideas to share for the future of Denali :

For denali user (3 cumulatives feeds) :
+ Denali (CME Futures) : 2 connections + No limit Symbols
+ Denali Equities (US Equities) : 2 connections (or 1) + xx Symbols
+ Other with Barcharts (All [exclude CME + US Equities]) : 1 connection + 20 Symbols

For Barchart User (No change)
+ Sierra Chart Exchange Data Feed (Barchart) [All markets] : 1 connection + 20 Symbols


I have 2 ideas for denali user :

1. Cumulate feeds
A Denali user can add and cumulate in one instance of Sierra Chart the 3 feeds (Denali, Denali Equities and Other Barchart).
For exmeple, on user who want trade CME, US Equities and Eurex. Can use the 3 feeds Denali and is not obliged to use the Sierra Chart Exchange Data Feed.


2. Exclude feeds
A other idea, can be the posibility to exclude one or more feeds from one instance of sierra chart.
For exemple, one user of Denali (Denali, Denali Equities and Other Barcharts) subscribed 3 feeds : CME, US Equities and Eurex (with Other Barcharts).

The user have 3 instance of Sierra Chart activate

Instance 1 of Sierra Chart : Denali and Eurex (Other Barcharts).
Instance 2 of Sierra Chart : Denali
Instance 3 of Sierra Chart : Denali and Denali Equities.


With this technique : Exclude certain Data Feeds, you can respect limitation of simulanemous connection and symbols and have Denali + Barcharts.
Can be managed in a Data/Trade Steting Option (One option of Allow Support For Sierra Chart Data Feed).
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-17 13:19:03
[2020-02-18 09:29:16]
Andreas - Posts: 496 | Ending Date: 2020-10-18
maybe you use the time and refactor the interactive brokers interface?
[2020-02-18 10:01:55]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
maybe you use the time and refactor the interactive brokers interface?
This is simply a case where you do not understand the integration that Sierra Chart already has to TWS. Sierra Chart already has a proper and best quality integration to TWS. It uses the very latest protocol where the message size is at the beginning of each message. There is simply nothing further we can do.

The only other thing that could be done, is using the newer TWS Position request which supports multiple trading accounts, but we looked at that but it has complications. However, the standard positions request and responses should work properly and most of the time they do.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-20 05:18:30
[2020-02-18 10:18:31]
Andreas - Posts: 496 | Ending Date: 2020-10-18
oh, we're deleting posts now? censorship at its best...
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-18 13:58:18
[2020-02-19 23:18:27]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
In regards to improving the integration with Interactive Brokers, what we are looking at is using a common FIX connection to route orders for those users who are using Sierra Chart and have an account with Interactive Brokers. We are going to ask them about this possibility to see if it is technically possible. Reference:
https://www1.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=4988

Although as we look at the specifications for the FIX API from IB there is no position reporting. Therefore, position reporting would be based upon order fills but because this would be an always maintained connection we would have an accurate history of order fills to have Sierra Chart generate positions from. So we do not see this really as much of a problem. This is no different than the way positions are reported for LMAX.

And the type of connectivity we would maintain to Interactive Brokers would be "Cross-Connect". This is the same kind of connectivity we are currently working on to TT.

And we are making definite progress on obtaining stock data feeds covering the US and other exchanges and level 2 data, and be able to provide it with our service packages at a reasonable price. And we plan to be able to obtain data from European stock exchanges, and also extend our market statistics calculation to those exchanges. We don't want to reveal too much about our data feed plans, but with what we are planning and what we see that we can achieve in the coming months is going to be a major major breakthrough with our data feed offerings with coverage, quality of service, and cost.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. If possible please keep your questions brief and to the point. Please be aware of support policy:
https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation

If your question/request has been answered and you do not have anything further, then it is easiest for us if you do not reply again to say thank you.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-02-20 05:22:41
[2020-02-20 05:21:36]
Sierra Chart Engineering - Posts: 81452 | Ending Date: 2020-06-09
Prior post has been updated.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level

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