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Direct MessagesDate/Time: Wed, 08 May 2024 19:18:54 +0000
Reversal Bars
View Count: 3141
| [2016-01-07 15:39:49] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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I have read all the posts regarding this topic being the same as P&F but better, but cannot find any comparison between the two, that is within Sierra Charts. On Marketdelta, when you display Reversal Bars you have the option to display along with the bars a marker that states that if it was a point and figure chart then it would be an X or an O, this marker I think has logic in it so that say for example you have a 5 tick reversal bar, you can display the marker that will tell you if it is an X or O based on the settings you input i.e. number of boxes and number of box reversal. Or alternative would be within the chart>settings>draw graph type when you select the P&F XO you have inputs that control the box size/reversal boxes etc as at present when you select this bar display it display Os and Xs according to what the chart is displaying i.e. you can have a series of Os if price is down which is meaningless and useless which makes the display option of XO at present completely irrelevant. Its not a big deal and would make reversal bars in Sierra AS USEFUL as they are in Marketdelta. Thanks :-) Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-01-07 15:42:03
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| [2016-01-07 18:03:08] |
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Reversal bars are very similar to Point and Figure bars. They are better because they are implemented as a basic bar type rather than using a study and they use the underlying tick by tick data for the greatest accuracy. There are no plans to change how Point and Figure XO bars are used for Reversal bars. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-01-07 18:03:30
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| [2016-01-08 19:09:57] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Hi, Thanks for your reply on this subject and I hear what you are saying with respect to reversal bars, so on that note, subject closed. However, in Chart settings>Graph draw type you have the Point & Figure XO display ---------> as this stands this display is entirely useless as the X and O's may aswell mean anything or represent anything as there is no reference to P&F other than it saying so in the selection box. At present it displays O's on downbars and X's on up bars, this is totally meaningless! If you are going to offer this display type that actually represents or means something useful then it needs to change from a O to X (or vise versa) on pullbacks otherwise instead of O's and X's it may aswell be pictures of donald duck and micky mouse. I hope you can appreciate the validity of this response Cheers |
| [2016-01-08 20:12:18] |
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If using the Point & Figure XO Graph Draw Type for Reversal Bars is useless, then it is useless. We have already looked at this a couple of times and the way it works now, seems to be the most logical. But if it is useless it is useless. We will not spend further time on this. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-01-08 20:20:06] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Hi A little amazed at your response TBH Its not reversal bars its meaningless for, its all display formats, it doesnt represent anything other than o's for down x's for up. I would have thought it would be more productive for the Sierra Charts engineers to actually read what I was saying in the context it was meant. Very disappointed indeed, especially considering considering the package is subscribed for. |
| [2016-01-08 20:26:59] |
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We did read what you said, and we read it again and we do not see how we can help with this further. The Point & Figure XO Graph Draw Type was added to the Chart Settings because a user asked for it to be used with Reversal Bars, but after making three changes to it, it never gave consistently logical results. At this point, we will probably just remove it. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-01-08 20:29:28
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| [2016-01-08 20:32:08] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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The simple solution would be to change from O or X (vice versa) on reversal of bar, thats its, simple solution. I was under the impression this was a support board for users to share their ideas for the benefit of the product and for all to experience. |
| [2016-01-08 21:03:39] |
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It used to work that way, but still there were conditions in which the result did not always appear to be correct. Someone pointed that out so we made the most recent change that ccurrently exists. But obviously the way it works now is not completely logical either. We will have a look at this again but not right now. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-01-08 21:07:35] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Hi, okay I appreciate that but I will say that whoever pointed out the way it used to be didnt understand reversals with respect to O and X cheers |
| [2016-01-08 21:11:55] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Thinking on, this PO chart display option would be a more efficient way of P&F for use with reversal bars only, it wouldnt really work with other bars i dont think. From reading your forums I think this simple fix would be welcomed by alot of peeps cheers |
| [2016-01-09 00:57:08] |
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What is the objective of using Xs and Os? It seems apparent, that this concept is from the days of using graph paper and someone decided to fill a rectangle on the graph paper with an X or O depending upon the market movement. So from our perspective, we would want to know how we could present the data in such a way without having to rely upon these. Reversal bars do different construction from Point and Figure bars. They are similar but different and because of the differences, Xs and Os are not always correct. It should be apparent just by looking at a bar, whether the bar is up or down and whether it is up or down relative to the prior bar. This can be determined from normal OHLC bars and candlestick bars. As long as you can see the opening and closing prices. So it seems like the only other piece of information obtained from Xs and Os is the fact that each letter represents a box which is often the tick size. So we could create a new bar type that consists of boxes and also has some form of marker at the open and close. It seems though that would convey all of the necessary information and not have any appearance issues related to scaling. Update: We can also add Point and Figures Bars as a basic bar type within Chart Settings rather than a study. This makes it more accurate. We will do that. We will also experiment with this new bar type that we described above. You can have a look and see what you think. The last two items are a much more solid and definite solution. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-01-09 01:06:19
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| [2016-01-09 01:37:50] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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just do O to an X on reversal
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| [2016-01-10 15:33:53] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Hi there, Okay I now have had more time to read your last post and to be able to answer more fully. You mentioned in your post of P&F being from the dark ages and that reversal bars are better (which they are) but I get a hunch that you are not really understanding the actual application of the P&F charts in real world situation, for example, where you aware that the way of reading REVERSAL BARS is to use the SAME logic to read P&F charts? You need to have a mindset to introduce more of a relationaship between the two studies as there is MOST definately a relationship there, Im not comparing by any means, but MarketDelta does understand this relationship. Your answer does somewhat over complicate an issue that is in essence a very simple solution which I have outlined below, THIS WILL RESOLVE THE ISSUE :-) Assume for example 5 tick reversal chart .......... 1) Establish a bar that is greater than 5 tick and its direction, say UP ..... this will consist of X's 2) The very NEXT BAR will ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS be a column of O's regardless if it closes UP, DOWN on highs/lows etc etc , the next bar to this will ALWAYS be X's, the next bar ALWAYS O's ........ and so on. By establishing this longer column of X's, the next bar will always be a pullback to the previous column, not continuation and therefore an opposite X or O according to direction. The same is true for the downside but O's for longer than 5 tick bars and ALWAYS an X goes in the next column, then an O in column after etc etc. By the very nature of the reversal bar, you will notice that then every long up bar will be an X, every long down bar will be an O whilst every adjacent column will be an opposing letter ("LONG" bars meaning longer than the than the reversal amount, in this case 5 ticks). You will also notice the choppy areas where the bars are no bigger than the minimum tick revesal amount will also have opposing letter to the previous bar and in total conformity to all other bars I.E. EVERY OTHER BAR WILL BE OPPOSITE TO THE PREVIOUS BAR AND EVERY LONGER UP BAR BE X'S AND EVERY LONGER DOWNBAR BE O'S hence a reversal chart of XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO etc etc etc. It is important to remember using X's and O's are NOT about plotting X's for all up bars and O's for all downbars as this is meaningless practically. Also this display type I feel only works with REVRSAL BARS as using any other bar display doesnt give any practical application. SO, ALL IN ALL A VERY SIMPLE FIX TO A VERY SIMPLE PROBLEM, IF YOU CAN ACCEPT THERE IS A FAAAAAAAR MORE DIRECT RELEATIONSHIP BETWEEN REVERSAL AND P&f AS ONE OF THE SAME (IN ANALYSIS & USE) THAN I THINK YOU REALISE AT PRESENT, ALL IS ULTIMATELY GOOD :-) Cheers |
| [2016-01-10 16:59:00] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Also, needles to say you never have two identical columns directly next to each other i.e. XX or OO
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| [2016-01-11 02:25:50] |
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There are two parts to Point and Figure Charts. There are the calculations to create the bars themselves and then there is the actual drawing of them. We are not saying Reversal bars are better. They are similar but a little different. The documentation expresses those differences. But basically the main difference has to do with the open price. What we are saying, is that the use of X's and O's for the drawing purpose is very antiquated. And certainly there is a better way to display these. So it seems as though someone should consider a better method to do this. We have some ideas but we do not know exactly what users would find best. Is it that you want to see very easily visually, that a particular bar was the result of a reversal from either the High or Low on the prior bar? Anyway, we now have this solved: http://www.sierrachart.com/image.php?l=1452478913718.png But we still think there is a much better drawing method. The current method is >100 years old and meant for graph paper. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-01-11 02:27:12
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| [2016-01-11 12:34:06] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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hi what version is this resolved in, im using v1352 and not displaying correctly as per you screenshot? cheers |
| [2016-01-11 18:22:26] |
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This will be out in the next release which has not yet been released yet.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-01-11 18:23:22] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Ok, no problems, any idea of a release period?
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| [2016-01-11 18:59:32] |
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In one or two days.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2016-01-11 19:22:13] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Ok cool and I would like to thank you for taking the timne to look at this area of charts again using the chart setting etc rather than the study. HOWEVER! lol dont get rid of the study as it is very useful also to P&Ffffers Again, a warm thankyou guys :-) |
| [2016-01-12 15:29:05] |
| User884307 - Posts: 173 |
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Hi there I have just downloaded the latest version of SC and used Overlay(bar) on my numbers bars chart with the XO bar type, unfortunately it still displays incorrectly. However, if you create a new chart with reversal bars and select XO from chart settings it displays correctly. Any ideas? Thanks :-) |
| [2016-01-12 17:43:17] |
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You will not be able to use the Overlay study with Reversal bars and the Point and Figure XO Graph Draw Type. It will not work properly.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2016-01-12 17:43:32
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