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Direct MessagesDate/Time: Thu, 18 Apr 2024 06:41:48 +0000
[Locked] - Regarding Rithmic (Our Final Post on this Subject)
View Count: 27177
| [2020-04-29 22:50:38] |
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There are numerous posts on this board regarding Rithmic and we have been asked about whether Sierra Chart will be supporting the connection directly to the R-Trader software to avoid paying exchange fees a second time when using Sierra Chart. This connection would mean that when you are only paying one set of exchange fees to Rithmic, this would allow you to use Sierra Chart at the same time as R-Trader and other programs. Sierra Chart has discontinued all technical support for Rithmic effective December 2019 and any updates because those updates are not technically possible (Refer to post #15 below). If you have been referred to this thread, and you have some issue involving a connection to Rithmic or some issue/question about Rithmic with Sierra Chart, we will not be providing technical support for it. The state of Rithmic is as is and will be removed effective December 31, 2020, from Sierra Chart completely in newer versions. The technical integration that Sierra Chart has to Rithmic is substandard due the type of interface provided by Rithmic. We understand why it is used by users, but it will not be even possible to use newer versions of Sierra Chart released after that time with Rithmic. It is part of our plans to have a single unified way to support market data from and order routing to common exchanges in order to provide the best level of service. So Sierra Chart is not going to be supporting the connection to R-trader to save on exchange fees because we do not have the technical ability to do that. The Rithmic bridge program has not been in active development for about three years now, and it cannot be changed. The current supported services are listed here: Supported Data and Trading Services The preferred alternatives to Rithmic are as follows: Sierra Chart / Trading Technologies Futures Order Routing Service (Have a look through the Introduction section on that page for the benefits of using this service as compared to Rithmic. This service supports multiple simultaneous connections without restriction.) Denali Exchange Data Feed (This service supports three connections per same device) Delayed Exchange Data Feed (No connection limits) Simulated Futures Trading Service (No connection limits) And if you are trading on exchanges other than or in addition to the CME Group (all four market data centers), use CQG: CQG Trading Platform Service Once we add EUREX to the Denali Exchange Data Feed delivered out of Frankfurt, then we would recommend using the Sierra Chart order routing service for EUREX trading. But for now we recommend just staying with CQG. We do have EUREX data available with the Sierra Chart Exchange Data Feed although that comes out of Chicago and not Frankfurt. -------- If you are not able to connect Sierra Chart to Rithmic because you are also running R-trader, what is the reason that you run R-trader at the same time? If it is for a secondary means of access to your account, with the Sierra Chart Order Routing Service, you already have a secondary means of access through the available web-based trading panel: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/SierraChartOrderRoutingServiceWithData.php#WebBasedTradingPanel Additionally you can also connect to the Sierra Chart Order Routing Service from Sierra Chart as many times as you want on the same or different systems. In the case of when using different systems, if you are not paying additional exchange fees to access the real-time data, you can use the delayed data. For instructions refer to: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?page=doc/SierraChartOrderRoutingServiceWithData.php#UsingDelayedMarketData Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-07-23 05:07:25
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| [2020-04-30 03:49:15] |
| Japhro - Posts: 120 |
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To clarify, after Dec 31st 2020 it will no longer be possible to use Rithmic at all, or users will simply have to use older SC versions if they still want to use Rithmic?
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| [2020-04-30 06:20:25] |
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You can continue to use Rithmic indefinitely after that with any version released before then. However, we would hope, when you look at what we offer with the Sierra Chart order routing service, the exchange coverage on the Denali data feed, and the additional risk management functionality, at that time that you will see that these alternatives are the best choice when using Sierra Chart. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-04-30 06:24:44
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| [2020-04-30 08:41:08] |
| Japhro - Posts: 120 |
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I do not necessarily agree, but it depends on some answers to other technical questions that I posted in another thread. Multiple platforms on one data feed, options trading functionality and bid/ask market depth levels are all issues I have to resolve in order to be able to change to Denali |
| [2020-04-30 08:43:29] |
| Japhro - Posts: 120 |
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I looked at your data trade services today which I have not in some time and it looks like not only Rithmic is gone, but CTS T4 as well?
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-04-30 08:43:42
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| [2020-04-30 18:55:52] |
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This is all supported other than related to options: Multiple platforms on one data feed, options trading functionality and bid/ask market depth levels are all issues I have to resolve in order to be able to change to Denali
Options trading is supported, but there is not extensive functionality in this area.CTS is supported but we just do not list it in the main list of services. We have had reports of problems with the data feed from them. Really the Denali data feed is superior to everything else. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-04-30 18:56:32
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| [2020-05-01 07:08:45] |
| User325529 - Posts: 3 |
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Before stopping the support of a data, make sure you already that your data replaces the previous one, except this is not even the case! we can't even use it with bookmap, how do you manage double connections now, do you have an API system? improve your software already! the dom is slow, you give the excuse it's rithmic, but it's not true, no problem on other software! well as your policy and to go in this direction, I must say goodbye sierra chart!
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-01 07:09:35
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| [2020-05-01 07:27:30] |
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we can't even use it with bookmap, how do you manage double connections now, do you have an API system? This has been available for about 7 years now. Refer to:Data and Trading Communications (DTC) Protocol Server We also have had a call specifically about this with Bookmap. It is their choice as of yet to not support this. It uses the open specification DTC Protocol: https://www.dtcprotocol.org/ the dom is slow, Not sure exactly what you are referring to here. If you are referring to data lag this is covered here:Prices / Data Falling Behind Lagging data is always going to be an external issue. It is Rithmic who provides the data feed, and it is Rithmic who provides the API software, and it is Rithmic who came up with the current design of how the API software works. Lagging data can also be due to network communication issues. We recommend that you try the Denali Exchange Data Feed and see if you notice any problem: Denali Exchange Data Feed And if you are referring to the Update Interval, this is adjustable, refer to: Chart Settings: Chart Update Interval in Milliseconds (Chart >> Chart Settings >> Display >> Chart Update Interval menu) I must say goodbye sierra chart! This is perfectly fine.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-01 08:33:27
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| [2020-05-01 08:23:57] |
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For those people using Rithmic with these various trading evaluator services, we are going to be making further enhancements to our simulated trading service which has already come a long way already and quite capable, and we document this here: Feedback Requested: Trading Evaluators (Top Step Trader etc.) This is the service we are referring to: Simulated Futures Trading Service And yes we understand that if they do provide you a funded account, they only work with Rithmic. But it is essential that there is competition created in that area. Anyway, Rithmic support still remains. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-01 08:24:38
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| [2020-05-01 08:56:51] |
| User325529 - Posts: 3 |
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I understand the competition, but concretely, from today I can no longer use with my setup sierra chart + bookmap, without being considered as a professional trader. the prices are not at all the same. So I can't work. This is also due to the new cme regulations, counting this as 2 different connections. If I could have connected sierra chart to r trader pro, the problem would be solved, except this is not the case. while waiting for that to be settled I must do otherwise
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| [2020-05-01 09:03:50] |
| Japhro - Posts: 120 |
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Is this the reason that you no longer support Rithmic, that you would need to plugin to Rtrader Pro? They CLAIM that this is a simple change, that essentially this is a very similar API, but I have no way to know. Sierra has decided for some reason to not continue on with them, so be it I guess. As to Rithmic being slow with SC< I have never experienced this, and I live in southeast Asia. I use the Rithmic Singapore server, but that still must eventually connect to the Chicago/Aurora servers - and I have acceptable lag - all due to ping from where I am located btw. I am about as far as geographically possible from the servers and it is still 230-250ms ping. Nothing anyone can do about that I'm afraid, and to me as a manual trader, I have never missed a fill because of it. You can do a trace between your machine and the endpoint servers, and see what your IP is doing, you may be surprised at how they route your connection, and you can also ask them to change/improve that. Also, using something like Google DNS helps as well. I have used SC with Rithmic and other feeds for years and Rithmic is no worse than CQG, CTS etc. There is nothing perfect in the world, but it does sound like you have an issue in the route between you and the servers. Good luck |
| [2020-05-01 20:07:13] |
| caligola - Posts: 116 |
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regarding post #3 We also have had a call specifically about this with Bookmap. It is their choice as of yet to not support this.
it would be really beneficial for us to use your datafeed Denali with Bookmap
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| [2020-05-02 00:13:38] |
| uM8137 - Posts: 180 |
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User325529 write: > I understand the competition, but concretely, from today I can no longer use with my setup sierra chart + bookmap, without being considered as a professional trader. the prices are not at all the same. So I can't work. This is also due to the new cme regulations, counting this as 2 different connections. If I could have connected sierra chart to r trader pro, the problem would be solved, except this is not the case. while waiting for that to be settled I must do otherwise Yes. So much this. SierraChart, this is a real problem. Those of us wishing to use both SierraChart and a second tool such as Bookmap (vastly superior visualization of depth compared to Sierra) or Jigsaw (vastly superior manual scalping execution and historical replay compared to Sierra) have been put in a serious bind by your refusal to change to the new bridge approach of connecting all tools to the Rithmic R Trader Pro, and having it be the single data connection. We realize that Rithmic is a huge pain to support, but the CME has made it imperative that we only use one connection. This is a small change to your legacy Rithmic support. But very much needed. We realize wasn't in your plans, but things change. The CME changed its rules. We all must adapt. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-02 00:19:16
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| [2020-05-02 01:11:45] |
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We thought it would be a good idea for us to state again, why it is that Sierra Chart cannot technically support the new connection points to R Trader. With the current code base of Sierra Chart and the compiler version which consists of: Open SSL (latest version), ZLib (latest version) and Visual C++ 2019, when the Rithmic bridge program is generated, the execution of it is not stable. It completely malfunctions, and it abnormally shuts down. The reason we mention open SSL and ZLib, is we think there is some kind of conflict with the static Rithmic libraries which is occurring related to those. This is the basic fundamental problem with API components, which Rithmic uses, which we have explained here: Sierra Chart Does not Support External Service API Components And also even if we adopted the Rithmic Protocol API, they do not even support that to connect to R Trader directly. And we would not use the market data from it either, when we have our own feeds, and they are much easier to support and work much better with Sierra Chart especially on the side of historical data. So we would not use the Rithmic data feed with their new Protocol based API. So the basic problem of avoiding a second set of exchange fees is not resolved in this case anyway If we were to use the Rithmic Protocol API. And there is a lot of development effort to support that both with initial development and ongoing support. We just never will undertake that initial and ongoing effort when we have superior solutions available for trading the CME group of markets already. We held off for a long time supporting CQG until they had a protocol-based API. Whereas Rithmic is using an in process API component: Sierra Chart Does not Support External Service API Components We should not have supported the Rithmic API component to begin with. Rithmic also has these limitations: -Higher per transaction fee versus CQG and our TT order routing. -Incompatible server-side bracket orders with Sierra Chart -Limited exchange coverage -Limited Historical Data. The historical data is provided by Sierra Chart servers other than the most recent 10 minutes. We do not think there is expired futures contracts available from Rithmic. Data delivery is not going to be as fast and reliable as Sierra Chart servers. Someone even mentioned, they got some kind of restriction from Rithmic due to too many historical data requests. This will never happen with Sierra Chart historical Intraday data. And it is only practical for us to support a small number of services for trading futures among the major exchanges. This way we can provide a better quality of support to everyone. As much as we dislike CQG, and Interactive Brokers, it is far better for us to be supporting those instead. And additionally, about half the Rithmic users are using these trading evaluator services and our view of them is explained here: Feedback Requested: Trading Evaluators (Top Step Trader etc.) It is not an area, which is significant among our user base, and we are working on providing an alternative. And we also have spoken to One Up Trader about this, and they are open to using our simulated trading service: Simulated Futures Trading Service We simply have no incentive at all to be supporting Rithmic for these trading evaluators. Our simulated trading service is absolutely superior and it is very well integrated with Sierra Chart. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-03 07:49:52
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| [2020-05-02 01:19:05] |
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serious bind by your refusal to change to the new bridge approach of connecting all tools to the Rithmic R Trader Pro See the reason above. If we could do it, we would do it in 10 minutes. It is not difficult but the result is a malfunctioning bridge program.We realize wasn't in your plans, but things change. The CME changed its rules. We all must adapt. This is not an acceptable situation the CME is creating. And we must not bow down to that tyranny. Does it make any sense to bow down? Is that that the path humanity to bow down to this garbage? Hell no. Think big and solve the problem. We will solve the problem. And why is it that jigsaw and bookmap do not take the few days of work to use the market data feed through the DTC server port: Data and Trading Communications (DTC) Protocol Server Or more importantly, why is it that Rithmic does not support the DTC protocol in their new server in Rtrader? Think about that. That is so simple. They only have to start with market data for the time being. We can provide the historical data. Sierra Chart has the best open and flexible standards-based architecture there is through its DTC server and client. For those who want to use Rithmic, solve the problem. You do not have to rely upon us, just get the job done. There are so many other possibilities that can solve this. We do not even have to do anything. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-02 23:14:10
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| [2020-05-02 01:27:35] |
| uM8137 - Posts: 180 |
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Yes. I get it. It is a reasonable position. I too would vastly prefer that Jigsaw/Bookmap would support read/write to DTC protocol.
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| [2020-05-02 07:19:45] |
| Japhro - Posts: 120 |
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As far as I am aware, and how it was explained to me by the customer service at AMP, was that you can have 2 simultaneous connections to your broker, but you must now pay separate exchange fees for each connection. In the case of Rithmic, they used to charge you $20 Rithmic fee per platform used, but you could use 1 connection/login for all of them. Now, Rithmic has dropped this $20 fee per platform in favor of a flat $20 fee across the board, but CME now insists that you pay them $30 per login. Also, more than 2 logins force you to professional status. According to AMP at least, 2 connections are fine. The bridge/plugin feature is a nice idea, but of course, there will be many platforms not supported by this. I am hoping that with a few small tweaks to Sierra for improved options trading - I will switch shortly to the Denali/TT setup. Check with your broker to confirm the 2 logins issue, it sounds like you can do this while still being called a nonprofessional trader. Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-02 07:20:13
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| [2020-05-07 04:49:38] |
| Joseph Helminiak - Posts: 21 |
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I have written on the Bookmap board asking for support of DTC protocol. Short answer: they told me I could write it myself or give them $5000 and they sell it as a "service/plug-in"
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| [2020-05-07 05:18:17] |
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It is just another way for them to say they are not interested. And we already know that. And it really only proves, that bookmap is not going to survive longer term. Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-13 19:07:28
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| [2020-05-13 19:07:01] |
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Effective at this time newer versions of Sierra Chart are no longer going to provide the Rithmic bridge program. This means that Rithmic is not available to be used for new users. Only existing users.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-13 22:27:17
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| [2020-05-14 00:33:38] |
| uM8137 - Posts: 180 |
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Since the bridge isn't supported, would you release the source code (to the bridge) open source? Between all of us, we should be able to fix it.
Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-14 00:34:23
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| [2020-05-14 00:52:17] |
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We will go ahead and attach the bridge program here.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing |
| [2020-05-14 01:39:52] |
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Files attached. There is one additional certificate file. We will attach that in another post.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-14 01:40:11
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 DTCBridge.exe - Attached On 2020-05-14 01:39:10 UTC - Size: 5.66 MB - 1124 views rim_ssl_cert_auth_params - Attached On 2020-05-14 01:39:15 UTC - Size: 2.04 KB - 828 views rim_ssl_client_params - Attached On 2020-05-14 01:39:20 UTC - Size: 1.72 KB - 790 views |
| [2020-05-14 01:48:16] |
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Additional Key/certificate file.
Sierra Chart Support - Engineering Level Your definitive source for support. Other responses are from users. Try to keep your questions brief and to the point. Be aware of support policy: https://www.sierrachart.com/index.php?l=PostingInformation.php#GeneralInformation For the most reliable, advanced, and zero cost futures order routing, *change* to the Teton service: Sierra Chart Teton Futures Order Routing Date Time Of Last Edit: 2020-05-14 01:48:41
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| rim_ssl_client_private_key - Attached On 2020-05-14 01:48:08 UTC - Size: 1.67 KB - 722 views |
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